Thread: Does equal opportunity actually exist within the US?

If we go back in time, say, back to when we settled this country -- and kept everything but race the same to present day, what would be the result? If we could swap places -- blacks and whites -- if blacks would have settled this country and whites were the minority, what would it be like? Would everything be exactly the same except the two races have swapped places? Would whites be looked upon as the entitlement/welfare class? Would white males be suffering a 50 percent unemployment rate? Would there be white colleges? Would it all be the same?

Originally Posted by Brock

If we go back in time, say, back to when we settled this country -- and kept everything but race the same to present day, what would be the result? If we could swap places -- blacks and whites -- if blacks would have settled this country and whites were the minority, what would it be like? Would everything be exactly the same except the two races have swapped places? Would whites be looked upon as the entitlement/welfare class? Would white males be suffering a 50 percent unemployment rate? Would there be white colleges? Would it all be the same?

You're from Ohio, Brock, so, I know you know what I'm talking about or where I'm coming from to some extent. The situation of unemployment, economic despair, and violence among Black-Americans is as bad or worse in the cities of Ohio as they are in Milwaukee. And the racial tension must be similar.

I had an uncle move to Cleveland for a brief period. He was like it was Milwaukee ain't no where as bad or bad off as Cleveland. He put it on par with his visit to Detroit many years ago.






My thing is I believe in "balance." I'm pretty "liberal" on many things but that does not mean all traditional or conservative values are bad. Take alanmt. He would hold "liberal" views on one or more controversial issues today. Nonetheless, he has some conservative views that has allowed him success in life professionally. Many Black-Americans today are reared with no comprehension of how to be competitive in a legitimate work environment. They don't have that attitude either.

This is compounded by the young women who are the first teachers in their children lives. They indoctrinate them with certain attitudes and beliefs and also bring a certain class of young men into their children's lives. Often this means many young men passing in and out these women and children's lives. The young men more often then not teaching the children that all that's important in life is "hustling," "grinding," and "having things." That's pretty much holy doctrine. And of course, white people are bad.

By mid to late 30's most the men and women are out of this. The women have tired (not always though) of cats in and out of jail and being unemployed. But age 35 or 40 is a little late to jump start in the workforce which places so much importance on work history or even resume.

It's not all black peoples fault. There is institutional racism. Most entry level jobs - owned by white people or Asians from overseas - are usually being built and located in distant white suburbs and counties. In Milwaukee they've even cut the bus routes from running past a certain time... I think 11:00 PM. So, not only are jobs 1 to 2 hours away from most blacks but they effectively can't work 3rd shift if they rely on public transportation. But many employers will not hire black males anyways because of the perception. Black females have a much easier time finding employment. It always trips me out the number of crackhead black women I used to get high with that land $15 and $25 an hour jobs in factories even though their work histories were terrible. I couldn't land jobs like that when I was a responsible hard charger fresh out the Corps. That's why I say not in a million years would I return (rebirth - reincarnation) as a black male in the United States. I'd rather return as a cross-eyed East Indian woman hooked on sniffing glue.

So, white people see a little violence from blacks and they don't like it. I deal with these types of young people and basically live around them (although I'm currently in a decent location) almost on a daily basis. But those white people want to stand in judgement of me because I'm always ready for combat (except now physically). I stay alert 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I exaggerate. I do sleep.





Really, how life would have been if black Africans colonized and controlled the United States does not matter. Things are as they is. Like HIV... either you have it or you don't.

So, this white guy who says he's a retired cop, probably a "proud American." I reckon he thinks himself all-knowing. He see "the writing on the wall." I bet he would want to lecture me on "life." He doesn't "play the race card" when he talks about blacks but experience tells me he'd get enraged if he heard me say I'd prefer to marry a Latin American or Braziliera. But he'd be too slow. He don't see that "writing on the wall." In part it's called "conservative values" - the encouragement of how to get from poverty to out of poverty.

My white mother tries to tell me it's no big deal if I have to file for bankruptcy. I say it is. Graduate schools look at your credit history. Employers increasingly look at your credit history. Home ownership? My ability to provide for my future children? Just trust Obama to be my savior. Just trust the Republicans to have benevolence. Just trust, trust, trust. I don't.


Your thoughts on mob incidents at State Fair - JSOnline

HDMan - Aug 05, 2011 9:29 AM

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I'm a recently retired police officer. I was at the Fair on Thursday. What I saw scared me and I've seen a lot.The Police at the Fair and Security were outnumbered and overwhelmed. Those black youths that were being told what to do just looked at the Police and did nothing.

I heard that a number of Police officers were injured including one that was hit in the face with a masterlock attached to a shoestring. It's only a matter of time before the first shot is taken and I do mean from a gun.

Also, enforce a dress code at the gates. Some of the outfits that these black females were wearing just incite these violent black males into more aggression. By the way, I witnessed a number of black female-only fights, too. Be scared white Milwaukee area residents. I got out of the Police business because I can see the writing on the wall. I'm done with Summerfest and now State Fair.

You see... that female Brazilian is not going to be just attacking some other female if they graze each other at the State Fair Park. She'll be civil and with me and she'll speak two or more languages. And we both will be laughing at you Americans with your racial antagonisms. But hey... I don't see "the writing on the wall."

I can relate with alanmt. I am liberal but conservative with some things as well. The liberal in me comes out when I see injustice. The conservative in me comes out when... I don't know, but it does sometimes --trust me. The State Fair mobs are disturbing and unfortunate. But this type of ignorant, racially motivated violence is being practiced by both whites and blacks. To think this day and age, there are still lynchings... black men being drug behind a hillbilly's pickup truck and so on.

But as I asked in my previous post: Would whites be in the exact same position as blacks are today if our roles were reversed during the birth of our country? If history remained exactly the same and only the colors were swapped, would the white male carry the same stigma as what the black male does today? Would white people be blamed for becoming a welfare/entitlement society? Would white people saturate the crime-ridden inner cities?

You're asking a question like political philosopher John Rawl's did, Brock, with his "Original Position" principle or inquiry.

I'm not opposed to investigating those kinds of questions especially as they may help lead to empathy.

And various white people of different ethnic groups once lived in crime-ridden inner cities. I read about local history ever so often. I find it worthwhile. I can say that many impoverished whites in the early 20th century lived in more Spartan fashion than impoverished blacks today in the city. Whole neighborhoods of whites had no bath tubes or showers. Inside their respective kitchens they bathed in metal tubes. And this was a SATURDAY affair. And one neighborhood I read about, when a community center was built there with showers, that's where the whole community ended up going on a regular basis just to bathe.

Black-Americans of my grandparents generation grew up poor and hard but they never acted like these jokers today. And we have free schools with free bus rides. Black slaves would have cut one of their legs off to get the kind of education freely available to black youth today. Most the teachers in public schools can't be blamed. Too many kids adamantly refuse to learn or do homework.

To be a lawyer you have to get into law school. Now, to get into law school you have to pass through various phases of educational life. Some Black-American parents (usually college educated) prepare their children for this and guide them in that direction. But many single parent black women give their kids little guidance beyond encouraging them to fist fight if disrespected.

I don't know... it's complex. It's not one single thing. And I don't have all the answers.

But in the end... everyone must walk their path.




(I really don't think the issue simply comes down to everyone being lazy)


Edit to add other cities like Philadelphia (and Chicago I think as well) are dealing with similar: It's time to take steps to stop young thugs - JSOnline

And various white people of different ethnic groups once lived in crime-ridden inner cities. I read about local history ever so often. I find it worthwhile. I can say that many impoverished whites in the early 20th century lived in more Spartan fashion than impoverished blacks today in the city. Whole neighborhoods of whites had no bath tubes or showers. Inside their respective kitchens they bathed in metal tubes. And this was a SATURDAY affair. And one neighborhood I read about, when a community center was built there with showers, that's where the whole community ended up going on a regular basis just to bathe.

True, but these people were not oppressed due to their skin color. I will answer the question. If history stayed the exact same and only the races were swapped. Things would be exactly the same today, but with whites and blacks changing roles. To say any different would be implying that one race is inferior to another by nature. I strongly believe that if an entire group of people are continuously beat down, not all, but many of them will eventually give up and pass this broken mentality down to their children. So how do we stop the cycle that I believe we brought upon ourselves? We can't just suddenly do away with entitlements all together or crime rates will go through the roof. Bill Clinton had the right idea: Limit the amount of time that people can be on welfare. He was shot down in our joke of a political system, of course, but he had the right idea.

I would say early European immigrants were discriminated against. The Italian-Americans and Irish-Americans have only recently lifted the majority of their peoples out the inner-cities and or poverty.

Today they're considered simply "white" in the United States. That was not really the case for Italian-Americans even up into the 1950's and 1960's.

In some ways I find their rise within the United States less impressive then Black-Americas.

Black-America has had its economic ups and downs ever since Reconstruction. But today its ethnic culture seems to be in possibly the most serious time and decline its ever seen. I think the Dominican Republic and and Brazil will eventually rise above Black-America. But as of yet Black-America still remains the wealthiest black people on earth (as a whole) with numbers of professionals, scholars, and entertainers in its ranks that makes it the envy of the black world.

Of course white skin or phenotype does not make one superior to blacks or people of darker hues. All I need do is look at Chechens or Romanians for that compared to Colombia and Brazil.

The black peoples of Bermuda actually enjoy some of the highest standard of living in the world from my understanding. Small place... but you have blacks riding horses, playing gulf, swimming and just frequently engaging in activity that middle-class White-Americans are hard press to experience with any frequency - swimming being the exception (Black-Americans are known to often be poor swimmers).





I think crack cocaine and the former system of AFDC bears a lot blame for the state of Black-America today. Crack cocaine turned simple street gangs into super-gangs that brought a whole new gospel and ethos into Black-American culture.

That's my view anyways.