Thread: Secede ? Really ? Ha !!

It seems that the liberals in Pima County Arizona have about had it with the fact that most of Arizona is conservative. They want to secede from the state and create a state called "Baja Arizona".


Liberals in southern Arizona seek to form new state - Yahoo! News

Back in the late 1980's, the folks in Southeast New Mexico looked into seeing if they could become part of Texas, again. That part of New Mexico was part of Texas, but the US required Texas to surrender that (along with parts of Colorado and Oklahoma) in order to join the US.

The folks in SE New Mexico vote and think Republican, while the rest of the state loves regulation, anti busness laws, taxes, and government giveaways.

I say, let them create Baja Arizona. Let them create a liberal paradise. Then, as an experiment, see how long it takes before it turns into another Detroit.

No one commented?

I am and always have been an Arizonan, born in Pima county.(Tucson)

I am pretty sure it was not a majority of people offering this option, just a vocal few.

Baja Arizona? Call it what it would be, Libizona.

Lets look at what they get:
Their percentage of Arizona's debt, they get to try to offer all services with only a percentage of tax money, they lose the united voice on the Federal level. I believe the "state" would have less population then Rhoad Island. They would get a good percentage of the illegals. Since they will be accepted, even welcomed. When they overwhelmed the businesses with taxes they will lose industry to Arizona (the first), and will have to over tax the people, thus driving out anyone with money. So it would be a state of illegals and unemployed.
I wonder how long liberal politicians will volunteer their time before they look for a better paying gig?

To give money away, you first have to take it from the person that earned it. When no one earns it, you have nothing to give away.
My evidence? Look at all the millionaires in California, but then look at the debt of California. They like to share the wealth as long as its not their wealth.

All us Canadians are still too burned out discussing Quebec to bother weighing in on Arizona. lol

Originally Posted by Capulet

All us Canadians are still too burned out discussing Quebec to bother weighing in on Arizona. lol

That is what I'm waiting on. Quebec will set an entire chain of dominoes tumbling.

I lived in Platsburg NY, I know that debate too.
At least Arizonians speak english...ah, never mind.
LOL

Originally Posted by Dudester

That is what I'm waiting on. Quebec will set an entire chain of dominoes tumbling.

It might turn out to be a long wait. The BQ was crushed in the last election federally, with little hope on the provincial level as well. I think Quebec is seeing the benefits of remaining in Confederation, and the you'll see some ratification before separation. They have too sweet a deal inside of Canada to walk away.

I do worry a bit talks will start up again when the belt has to be tightened across the country, but by then I think things will have been so gunked up citizens of Quebec will be more concerned about jobs and sustainable health care than raising the flag.

There is a precedent of sorts.

At the start of the U.S. Civil War, Jones County, according to legend, seceded from the State of Mississippi and declared itself the 'Free State of Jones'. I heard stories about it from my paternal grandfather who was born in neighbouring Jasper County in 1863.

Unfortunately the historical record does not support the legend. Here is a site that explains the fact and fiction of the Free State of Jones.

Perhaps future generations will hear all about the founding of Baja Arizona.

Originally Posted by Capulet

It might turn out to be a long wait. The BQ was crushed in the last election federally, with little hope on the provincial level as well. I think Quebec is seeing the benefits of remaining in Confederation, and the you'll see some ratification before separation. They have too sweet a deal inside of Canada to walk away.

I do worry a bit talks will start up again when the belt has to be tightened across the country, but by then I think things will have been so gunked up citizens of Quebec will be more concerned about jobs and sustainable health care than raising the flag.

I think as time goes on, the relevance of francophone culture in Quebec will fade more and more, and with it the seperatist movement. Though, I did find it funny when Harper let them have the claim of being a country within a country (seriously, why would you want autonomy when you're almost landlocked in another country, yesh).
As for the sudden shift to NDP, Quebecers are known for their sudden, yet capricious love affair with parties. When the NDP screws up enough, the bloc might return, who knows?

Originally Posted by guy_faukes

I think as time goes on, the relevance of francophone culture in Quebec will fade more and more, and with it the seperatist movement. Though, I did find it funny when Harper let them have the claim of being a country within a country (seriously, why would you want autonomy when you're almost landlocked in another country, yesh).
As for the sudden shift to NDP, Quebecers are known for their sudden, yet capricious love affair with parties. When the NDP screws up enough, the bloc might return, who knows?

Keeping watch of the elections the past twenty years, I've seen massive swings-it's almost a manic depressive thing. Hot one moment, ice cold the next. Considering how close they came 7 or 8 years ago, I thought this time-it would be a done deal, but no, they were squished like a bug on a highway.

Originally Posted by Dudester

It seems that the liberals in Pima County Arizona have about had it with the fact that most of Arizona is conservative. They want to secede from the state and create a state called "Baja Arizona".


Liberals in southern Arizona seek to form new state - Yahoo! News

Back in the late 1980's, the folks in Southeast New Mexico looked into seeing if they could become part of Texas, again. That part of New Mexico was part of Texas, but the US required Texas to surrender that (along with parts of Colorado and Oklahoma) in order to join the US.

The folks in SE New Mexico vote and think Republican, while the rest of the state loves regulation, anti busness laws, taxes, and government giveaways.

I say, let them create Baja Arizona. Let them create a liberal paradise. Then, as an experiment, see how long it takes before it turns into another Detroit.

I find it amusing that a Texan has the chutzpah to laugh about crazy fringe secessionists.

Texas Secession Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After Perry's comments received considerable attention and news coverage, Rasmussen Reports issued a poll and found that about 1 in 3 of those surveyed believed that Texas has the right to secede from the United States, although only 18% would support secession and 75% would oppose secession.[13] In another poll, 60% of Texans surveyed opposed becoming an independent nation. However, 48% of Texas Republicans surveyed supported it.[14]

18%.

Forget seceding from a state. Let's see how long Texas lasts if it removes itself from the ENTIRE UNION.

Originally Posted by Edgewise

Forget seceding from a state. Let's see how long Texas lasts if it removes itself from the ENTIRE UNION.

Texans need to realize that if they succede they instantly become the closest invadable nation with oil. Never a good title to hold.

Originally Posted by Edgewise

I find it amusing that a Texan has the chutzpah to laugh about crazy fringe secessionists.

Texas Secession Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

18%.

Forget seceding from a state. Let's see how long Texas lasts if it removes itself from the ENTIRE UNION.

Actually, I'm one of those (there are a lot of us) who think of myself as a Texan first, and an American second. America is my country, I have fought for her and I whole heartedly believe in defending her. I also believe that Washington is bloated and out of control. The Tea Party is a sign that there is a revolution coming, as much as the Soros media (ABC, NBC, CNN, etc.) believes otherwise. Sooner or later, some President is going to really push it. When that happens, Texas will push back. With that said:

Texas would be better off as a nation once again. Texas has it's own electrical grid and oil to boot. Texas has it's own military (I'm not talking about the National Guard-the Texas State Guard-like the Texas Rangers [not the baseball team], answer only to the Governor). For every dollar Texas pays in federal taxes, it only gets .75 cents back (unlike states like New Mexico-1.10). If Texas held on to it's own taxes, it could use them most wisely.

Don't give me that Soros media initiated "But Texas has a budget shortfall" crap. That only popped up this year, and FYI, lots of states are having that problem. Since one quarter of our taxes don't come back, that's natural. Texas will fix it's budget problem, thank you.

Next.

Texas is the jewel of the nation. The US needs Texas more than Texas needs the US. If the US lost Texas, it would set forth a series of dominoes falling upon one another. That is why I watch the Quebec situation. If gun control doesn't start the second American Revolution (or Civil War II), the Quebec situation will. If Quebec goes, Canada falls apart. When the US intervenes, there will be political chaos.

^ Spoken like a true Texan, haha.

Quebec isn't that important to the Dominion. If were Alberta, I could see brown matter hitting the fan, but they seem pretty content as is.

Originally Posted by guy_faukes

^ Spoken like a true Texan, haha.

Quebec isn't that important to the Dominion. If were Alberta, I could see brown matter hitting the fan, but they seem pretty content as is.

If you wanted the province that's the closest in "succeeding in seceding" then Alberta is likely it. We have a very strong economy, mostly based around natural resources, a healthy supply of water, and agricultural means. One big problem is we're landlocked, but we'd have at least two major trading partners that devour what we sell.

I live in Alberta, and I don't think we'll ever leave. We talk about it, we grumble, but we have a strong Canadian identity. We are Albertans first inside of Canada, but Canadians first in our hearts and minds.

That doesn't preclude us from saying "screw you" to the rest of the country, and using the not-withstanding clause to enforce our own will within our own province, but it'll always be within the Canadian framework.