Thread: What’s your opinion on revenge killing?

How many old people did he kill when his barbaric plot was hatched? Did you ever hear of the saying: "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword"?

I do not defend the man's actions, nor defend his plots, (you have an America centric view, don't forget Bali, Madrid, London, Dar es Salaam and Nairobi), but as Gandhi said "An eye for an eye and we all end up blind".

If a firefight ensued, unless he was shot execution style, his death was just in the dual of battle. He lived by the sword and he died by the sword.

The story coming from official American sources has changed, it now seems he was unarmed and it was an extra-judicial assassination.

Well... I'll tell you this... the front pages on the Milwaukee Journal and other city and national news papers, with photos of large mobs of Americans gathered, smiling, and cheering, immediately reminded me of the photographs of smiling whites, several decades ago, standing under trees of lynched black men.

Me too, I got exactly that as soon as I saw that photo, but hesitated to draw such an emotive parallel.

Well... I'll tell you this... the front pages on the Milwaukee Journal and other city and national news papers, with photos of large mobs of Americans gathered, smiling, and cheering, immediately reminded me of the photographs of smiling whites, several decades ago, standing under trees of lynched black men.

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle

Me too, I got exactly that as soon as I saw that photo, but hesitated to draw such an emotive parallel.

Do you have any idea how hurtful and insulting that is ? I expected better out of you.

When I was sixteen I returned from an Aldermaston march very charged up by association with thousands of like minded people, my father took me aside and warned me against the dangers of crowd emotion, citing the Nuremberg rallys. A few years later I saw pacifist demonstrators fighting police in red lion square outside the American embassy during the Vietnam war, he was right, the reaction of people in crowds is not their normal one. Looking at the blurry pictures of the blood bespattered room where the execution took place my guess is that most of those cheering and smiling would have been throwing up if they had been confronted with the reality as individuals.
I did not intend my comment as hurtful or insulting, merely as a statement, crowds get carried away, or as Bertrand Russell put it "Morality is in direct inverse proportion to the number of people involved." Rather than being hurt or insulted I would prefer that people decided on things logically and individually, that was why I kept the initial, emotive observation to myself, but it did remind me. I don't regard that as an insult, I actually have considerable admiration for a people who have moved from lynch mobs to having black mayors and police chiefs, and even a coloured head of state, in a single generation, but in my book crows are always to be viewed with suspicion.

God fearing people should be praying for some sane direction to come to a nation that is now portrayed as openly sanctioning and praising summary execution. Acts of atrocity can't be painted white for the sake of propaganda without a price being paid. Human rights apply to all and that includes the right to a legal trial.

It had been my intention to sit this debate out but I see so many unhealthy trends. My previous post expressed my candid view on this issue:

http://www.writingforums.com/debate/...ml#post1430332

The horror and injustice of summary execution to satisfy the mob is at the heart of Christian teaching. Bin Laden was no martyr but this act will surely make him appear so to many.

When it comes to the issue of closure, photographs can be faked and the only real evidence would be the body which has been conveniently dumped in the ocean.

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle

When I was sixteen I returned from an Aldermaston march very charged up by association with thousands of like minded people, my father took me aside and warned me against the dangers of crowd emotion, citing the Nuremberg rallys. A few years later I saw pacifist demonstrators fighting police in red lion square outside the American embassy during the Vietnam war, he was right, the reaction of people in crowds is not their normal one. Looking at the blurry pictures of the blood bespattered room where the execution took place my guess is that most of those cheering and smiling would have been throwing up if they had been confronted with the reality as individuals.
I did not intend my comment as hurtful or insulting, merely as a statement, crowds get carried away, or as Bertrand Russell put it "Morality is in direct inverse proportion to the number of people involved." Rather than being hurt or insulted I would prefer that people decided on things logically and individually, that was why I kept the initial, emotive observation to myself, but it did remind me. I don't regard that as an insult, I actually have considerable admiration for a people who have moved from lynch mobs to having black mayors and police chiefs, and even a coloured head of state, in a single generation, but in my book crows are always to be viewed with suspicion.

Okay, since you missed it, I'll explain. The original statement was a troll statement. An internet troll is someone who says something so hurtful and provocative so as to incite a very emotional respose. The troll then says more hurtful things.

The original statement was a troll statement. This is why I ignored it. You, on the other hand, validated it.

Osama Bin Laden is a mass murderer. Whether he got a double tap to the head, was dragged to the courtyard and hung from a tree limb, or was dragged behind a truck is irrelevant-he deserved death in return for all the unprovoked death he dealt out. To give him a trial would only be to elevate him to a status where he had a chance to rant out his wacko beliefs.

It wasn't just the people he killed who suffered, it was their families, and it was those who watched the unbelievable events of the crisp September day in 2001. And yet, in one fell swoop, yoiu validated a statement equating many Americans to backwoods, moonshine swilling, uneducated, barabaric hicks.

You sir have insulted many. You have made light of those who believe in honor and duty, and those who have sweated and bled for their country while you stand on some podium and declare yourself better than everyone else.

Wow, I thought you were better than that. Clearly, I thought wrong.

There is something distasteful in people celebrating another's death. I can understand relief even satisfaction, I can, in certain circumstances, understand revenge. But joy? It doesn't sit well with me.

However, that apart there could be no question of him being taken alive, it would start a stream of hostage taking.

And burial at sea removes other perceived threats.

It is perfectly understandable that people want him dead (in a more brytal manner would have stisfied me) but enjoying and cleberating another persons death is disturbing. There is no question that everyone here wanted him dead, it is just a question of over doing it.

Baron, it is already happening and those pictures of thousands cleberating his death are not helping the situation, people here think that americans are also cleberating the death of the innocents. One of our news channels showed some people praying for Osama on the seaside.

Originally Posted by Dudester

Okay, since you missed it, I'll explain. The original statement was a troll statement. An internet troll is someone who says something so hurtful and provocative so as to incite a very emotional respose. The troll then says more hurtful things.

The original statement was a troll statement. This is why I ignored it. You, on the other hand, validated it.

Osama Bin Laden is a mass murderer. Whether he got a double tap to the head, was dragged to the courtyard and hung from a tree limb, or was dragged behind a truck is irrelevant-he deserved death in return for all the unprovoked death he dealt out. To give him a trial would only be to elevate him to a status where he had a chance to rant out his wacko beliefs.

It wasn't just the people he killed who suffered, it was their families, and it was those who watched the unbelievable events of the crisp September day in 2001. And yet, in one fell swoop, yoiu validated a statement equating many Americans to backwoods, moonshine swilling, uneducated, barabaric hicks.

You sir have insulted many. You have made light of those who believe in honor and duty, and those who have sweated and bled for their country while you stand on some podium and declare yourself better than everyone else.

Wow, I thought you were better than that. Clearly, I thought wrong.

If you've sworn the oath of allegiance and have fought to uphold the American constitution then you were certainly not fighting to allow governments to carry out unlawful executions. Even the lowest criminal has the right to a trial.

A lesson that it took the British several centuries to learn in their ongoing disputes with Ireland is that incarceration is more effective than execution when it comes to reducing casualties. Going out in a blaze of glory is one thing, languishing in a cell is quite another.

It's probable that more lives would have been saved by the British ceasing their interference in Irish affairs. The same is true of western interference in the middle east. One man's terrorist is always another man's freedom fighter.

I was in Vancouver Monday night, in a bar. It was the day of their national elections, and curious about it all, I'd struck up a conversation with a group of people about the results and what was going on. I'd already identified myself as an American, so when the video of all the morons celebrating in Times Square etc. came on, I wanted to shrink into my chair with embarrassment. You could clearly see the Canadians were disgusted by the display. It's a shame -- the multiple conversations I've had with other Americans indicate that these people are in the minority -- but of course, this is what the world sees. Idiots.

Nope, people didn't have to celebrate the shooting of Osama bin Laden. Neither did people in the middle east have to celebrate his murder of 3,000 of our civilians. A lot of this never HAD to happen at all but it did.

Speaking of meddling in the Middle East, let's try to remember that this was a holy war against 'crusaders'. I had never heard of Al Queda before 9/11 ripped a significant portion of New York apart. I did, however, see videotapes of middle eastern children being taught the 'death to America' chant from back in the 70's.

Legal restraints have helped to build a civilized society in the Western World. When those restraints are cast aside by leaders who are preaching that the end justifies the means then the West is in trouble.

Quote: Robert Bolt - A Man for all Seasons.

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

Western leaders are openly doing things that may have been done in the past but always covertly. Now these things are being done openly and proudly. The actions of certain politicians in the last decade have left me wondering why on Earth Nixon was impeached. By comparison he was an innocent.

Quote: Robert Bolt - A Man for all Seasons

Sir Thomas More: I think that when statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties, they lead their country by a short route to chaos.

Originally Posted by Foxee

A lot of this never HAD to happen at all but it did.

You could pretty much say that about anything. The point is, the celebration was in poor taste. They didn't HAVE to act like idiots, but they did.

I didn't miss the point. Please remember to quote a very important part of that.

Neither did people in the middle east have to celebrate his murder of 3,000 of our civilians.

In light of this, I find it easier to forgive the people celebrating here, poor taste or not.