Thread: Sex before Marriage.

Originally Posted by JosephB

People wishing they had waited is a common theme.

I'm interested in this subject because I have two young children. I read a couple of surveys last time this came up on the forum -- and surprisingly, most teens said that their parents are their primary influence when it came to matters of sex -- not peers. So you never know. If you've had negative experiences, maybe sharing that will influence them and perhaps they'll consider waiting.

All you can really hope for, I think, it that they wait until they're better able to deal with all the consequences of sex -- until they're at least responsible enough to take the needed precautions. Along with crossing your fingers, that's about all you can do.

I don't know... I found the peer pressure pretty strong.

The reason I wish I had waited is due to an early sense of a loss of innocence. A distinct feeling of guilt. Like a replay of Adam in the garden after he sunk his fangs into the apple.

That original guilt never leaves you.

(The only time it leaves me is when I'm dressed up like a wolf and creeping up on "Little Miss Riding Hood" - that or a triple shot of vodka)

I read or heard, many years back, that psychologist found that it's common and typical for boys to feel more guilt after sex than girls. I know for myself, I had the immediate feeling afterward, that I was both giving up something and wrongfully taking something away from someone else (from the girl). I think I always felt this way after - the few times I've had it my life - having sex. I don't think it much bothers me today. Not like it did when I was much younger. Of course, I'm thoroughly debauched now too. It would take a legion of saints in heaven to rescue me from the pits of hell.

As for parenting, and I'm not a parent, but if and when I am one, I'm not in the business of building teen fathers. I'm in the business of building teamsters, Jesuits, and rodeo clowns. That's their three options. That's their three options.

I guess I don't relate to the guilt aspect of it. And I was raised Catholic. I was almost 17 and waited until my girlfriend said she was ready -- didn't pressure or beg her. I didn't feel the least bit of guilt and was pretty darned happy about the whole thing. Until that point, the best 30 seconds of my life.

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

Girls can cross their legs. That's something else they can do.

You are a character, Ox.

You know... we are in a different era too. Some months ago I saw something on the crowded bus stop right in front of the union hall entrance to my university. Something I never saw publicly in all my years coming up from childhood.

Two blokes - young guys - kissing each other. One was standing behind the other with his arms wrapped around him. Now, I've seen young women outdoors on campus strolling and holding each others hands as a couple. I've even seen a guy with a woman that looked like a dude. But even that event with the two young blokes was a surprise and novelty for me. So, this all begs the question, especially in light of MTV sitcoms and dramas,* what if the girl in your example is really a boy (XY chromosomes)? Should she still refrain from premarital sex by the method of crossing legs?




*I've seen an episode of a show on MTV where one of the main characters was a gay high school teacher and his lover a male high school student, and the student's mother implored the teacher to take her son into his house since they both (the two males) were lovers.

This was several years before the sex scandal in the Catholic Church broke and therefore, before adult males having sex with underage teen boys became taboo among liberals.

Originally Posted by JosephB

I guess I don't relate to the guilt aspect of it. And I was raised Catholic. I was almost 17 and waited until my girlfriend said she was ready -- didn't pressure or beg her. I didn't feel the least bit of guilt and was pretty darned happy about the whole thing. Until that point, the best 30 seconds of my life.

I pressured and begged - for a couple hours or more - and consequently, I think I lasted less than 30 seconds when the mission was finally complete.

I would think the Catholic variable would have little to no bearing on the phenomenon of feeling guilt. I my mind that loss of innocence is universal to all humans. But that's in my mind. I've of course never conducted a statistical poll on the issue.

Maybe we should ask Edge our resident agnostic Jew?

Originally Posted by JosephB

I guess I don't relate to the guilt aspect of it. And I was raised Catholic. I was almost 17 and waited until my girlfriend said she was ready -- didn't pressure or beg her. I didn't feel the least bit of guilt and was pretty darned happy about the whole thing. Until that point, the best 30 seconds of my life.

Exactly the same.

...except the 30 seconds thing

Originally Posted by Writ-with-Hand

I would think the Catholic variable would have little to no bearing on the phenomenon of feeling guilt.

Not in this day and age, anyway. I wasn't really being serious. Just referring to the whole Catholic guilt thing from movies and stand-up routines.

Originally Posted by Tom

Exactly the same.

...except the 30 seconds thing

It was less than 30 seconds? Sorry to hear that.

Originally Posted by JosephB

It was less than 30 seconds? Sorry to hear that.

Hah, should have covered my back (not literally).

I think it's an abstract and arbitrary clause brought on by the popularity of a cult phenomenon that's been running for far too long to be healthy to society.

In short, go watch discovery channel and let nature show you the way. We may think we are far removed from animals, some may be humble and say we are not far removed from animals, the truth is we are animals and monkey see, monkey do, literally.

And as a note, I was far removed from innocence when I last my virginity, I don't see how anyone could not be these days. The subsequent losses of additional innocence hasn't really phased me.

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

Girls can cross their legs. That's something else they can do.

You may all thank the WF Chief of Police, Foxee, for the crude but potentially humorous comment that I never made here.

At 16, I was taken to a whorehouse by my friend. The place was a dingy hotel run by a pimp who was being shaken down by a guy from my neighborhood. The women weren't bad looking, and the price was right. For about a year, my friends and I would make a stop up this place nearly every Friday and Saturday nights. Then, I started to smoke pot and lost interest in prostitutes.

Now It's funny to review those memories. Back then, after visiting the whorehouse, we'd go to a bar where beautiful girls would be hanging out, and it was like "who cares for them" because we were already spent. To be quite honest, I'm glad I got the prostitute thing out of the way before I turned 18. I would never knock one though because some are interesting people.

Originally Posted by Robinjazz

Then, I started to smoke pot and lost interest in prostitutes.

That would be an awesome anti-marijuana commercial.

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

Tom's right in one respect. Having the existence or non-existence of a piece of paper determine how one behaves is ridiculous. I got caught up in something similar - not marriage - years ago, and looking back on it today realise what a complete prat I was.

You've converted me. Now, when I conduct any sort of business, I will insist there be no contract, and that I take everyone's word that they will pay me the correct amount at the agreed upon time, or that they will provide me the agreed upon service for the amount I pay them.

Marriage is a contract, and every aspect of our life is dominated by one contract or another. Car loans, mortgages, jobs, crossing the street, buying an ice cream cone, they're all forms of contracts that are enforced by law. Chances are if you're in a situation that isn't controlled by a legally enforceable contract, you're operating under a social contract with societal enforcement.

Waiting until marriage for sex offers two major benefits:

1. You give yourself the highest level of protection from STDs possible, especially if your partner has waited too
2. You give yourself the highest level of protection from pregnancy possible, if your desire is to raise a child in a nuclear family

Sex is not the ultimate expression of love, sacrifice is. If you truly love someone, and they don't want to have sex until they are married, then you should be able to sacrifice your sexual urges until that time, or "take care of them in other ways", if you will. If the person you "love" isn't worth waiting for, perhaps you should reevaluate your "love" for them.

I didn't wait for marriage, and I enjoy sex. That being said, I don't begrudge anyone the right to wait until marriage. I think it's a wonderful gift you can give someone else, to be their first and only.

...and yet Marriage is possibly one of the easiest contracts to get out of right now, with the rate of divorces per year being over half of the rate of marriages each year. But, that being said, I am no way not condemning Marriage, it's a beautiful thing to share with someone you love, committing to one another in every possible way. I just don't think sex comes into it.

You say your first and only, but I don't see why you have to be married for them to be your first and only. I love my girlfriend, and I know that as an 18 year old a vast majority of you will snort and think 'give it a couple months and he'll be moaning about some other girl'. But I won't. I know her too well and she knows me too well, I find it hard to imagine the both of us with different people. In fact, I reached the point a long time ago where I'd gladly stand in front of a bullet for her *cue more snorting*. I don't need to marry her to feel that way, and marrying her won't change the way I feel. It will only change the way the relationship works.

I'm getting the idea that this is a lot more opinionated than most topics, more so than I first believed.

But I stick with Ox - Marriage is a commitment of legal or religious status, and (to me) it makes no sense to wait for this simple sacrament if you are ready and love one another; you will only damage your relationship.

Originally Posted by Tom

...and yet Marriage is possibly one of the easiest contracts to get out of right now, with the rate of divorces per year being over half of the rate of marriages each year. But, that being said, I am no way not condemning Marriage, it's a beautiful thing to share with someone you love, committing to one another in every possible way. I just don't think sex comes into it.

True, but if you're a woman who has committed to living with a man and having his child, potentially foregoing education or career to do so, your comment is the exact reason to wait until marriage. It is extremely easy to walk away from a commitment, and is becoming more socially acceptable to do so by the year. Marriage provides you the best protection for you and your child should you suddently find yourself unattached, uneducated, and unemployed. If the guy is going to leave you with the child, you will not only get child support (due married or not) but also a sizable chunk of the marital assets, including the potential for alimony.

Originally Posted by Tom

You say your first and only, but I don't see why you have to be married for them to be your first and only. I love my girlfriend, and I know that as an 18 year old a vast majority of you will snort and think 'give it a couple months and he'll be moaning about some other girl'. But I won't. I know her too well and she knows me too well, I find it hard to imagine the both of us with different people. In fact, I reached the point a long time ago where I'd gladly stand in front of a bullet for her *cue more snorting*. I don't need to marry her to feel that way, and marrying her won't change the way I feel. It will only change the way the relationship works...

But I stick with Ox - Marriage is a commitment of legal or religious status, and (to me) it makes no sense to wait for this simple sacrament if you are ready and love one another; you will only damage your relationship.

Without going in to a long diatribe about how formal marriages on average last far longer than common law relationships, I will simply reply with this:

I have had many relationships severely damaged from rushing in to intimacy. If you feel you are ready to make that jump, go ahead. What are you waiting for? Move in, buy a bed with a sturdy frame, and try to break it.

But then let me ask you: why not get married sooner rather than later?

If you ~know~ she is the one, and you are going to be with her forever, marry her right now. What are you waiting for? Chances are wherever you live has laws around living together and you'll be commonlaw after a year or two anyway. If you are going to be with this women forever as you say (until you take that bullet for her), then you are on a crash course with marriage as far as the government is concerned.

The tax benefits of being married are many, and you shouldn't wait. It's like free money you're giving away. Also, marriage is still one of those ultimate symbols of undying love you can give to someone. If you love her sooo,ooo,ooo much, why wouldn't you want to scream it as loud as possible in every way possible? Maybe you can get her name tatt'd on to your back during the ceremony. (I kid, I kid, think before ink)

If you love the girl, you would want to protect her from the disproving looks of "proper" society. As silly as it is, if you'd take a bullet for her to protect her life, you should certainly be ready to take an oath for her to protect her reputation, right?

Anyway, I think you can divorce physical love from emotional love, and you can fully explore an emotionally deep relationship with someone without having to consult the carnal. If not, then I guess you just aren't loving your mom to the fullest, are you young sir? (I kid, I kid, think before inc)