Thread: 25,000 Converge on Wisconsin State Capitol

One of my young nephews went to Madison with his family, and he held a sign that said, "Governor Walker Stole My Cookies, Now He Wants My Education."

The Frenchies and Brits and can learn something from Wisconsinites. Notice how our democratic protests don't turn into mob riots with throwing stones at police or setting cars on fire.

At hand is the Republican Governor of Wisconsin that is potentially going to gut MPS (Milwaukee Public Schools), possibly cut UW-Madison (the flagship of the UW system, 1 of the top research universities and medical schools in the country), and end collective bargaining rights of state employees.

Possibly no protest has been seen like this since the 1960's, certainly not in my life time that I can remember of. Chicago sent musicians from its fire department to support the labor unions converging on Madison (the state capitol of Wisconsin). My brother - a teacher at MPS - has heard that the NAACP is mobilizing people around the country to converge on Madison over the threat to gut (financially) MPS. Primary schools, middle schools, and high schools.

Schools throughout Racine, Wisconsin shut down. They shut down in Milwaukee. Students and teachers headed to Madison. My own university had a large protest (which I observed from TV) but no universities shut down to my knowledge.

This is a big debated issue between Republicans and Democrats and that's why I placed this in the debate section of the board.

Video: Capitol Chaos: Union Leaders Attend Protest | Today's TMJ4 - Milwaukee, Wisconsin News, Weather, Sports, WTMJ | Local News

Not to spam but for background context to MPS:

I'm not a product of MPS but I'm saddened to see its great decline and state. It has followed what has happened to Catholic schools and Catholic parishes in Milwaukee: closures and mergers.

Currently some public school buildings have been closed for years, sitting vacant, and schools - like Washington High School - that I grew up seeing and knowing people that attended it, has 2 or 3 different schools in the building now.

So, gutting MPS further would essentially tear MPS down further and deliver damnation upon all the students that attend it (predominately racial "minorities").

1. Wisconsin Protests Continue as Dems Leave State to Stall "Budget-Repair" Vote - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Truth to tell the lady in front in that bottom picture looks as though a budget cut for her would be beneficial.

You have a conservative, no, reactionary, political wave sweeping the U.S. Just be thankful Trent Lott put his foot in it and took himself out of the running or you would have seen him as a viable candidate for President in 2008 and again in 2012. Haley Barbour is of the same stripe - beware.

The reaction against that in Wisconsin - and I'm glad you posted this or I would have missed it - is a healthy reminder to the U.S. electorate that there is still a choice.

Now if everyone will please stand as we wing all the stanzas of 'Roses and Bread'.

Originally Posted by garza

Truth to tell the lady in front in that bottom picture looks as though a budget cut for her would be beneficial.

LMAO! Good one, garza.

First let me say that I think this is a great topic to discuss. I admit that I don’t know all the details of the situation in Wisconsin. I live in Michigan, and for those of you that don’t know: Michigan has been hit by the current economic situation harder than anyone. Our new Governor just presented a budget that has many seeing red over his proposed cuts. These cuts included a significant amount of money per student. Now on the surface it seems that may anger everyone, but in reality it is a necessary evil. Governor Snyder basically told everyone that there is no more lying or sugar coating the facts. We are in trouble and these times require drastic actions. He said that this is not something that I am doing on a whim; this should have been done as long ago as the 80s.

As for the unions representing the teachers I feel that they need to wake up. I personally have several friends that are teachers. One of them recently told me that they have a new contract coming up, and he was going to wait to retire until after it because he would get a raise that way. I asked him, considering the current financial situation the state is in, did he really think they would get one. He said, “Oh yeah – the union will demand it.” My jaw dropped. I work for our local county, and I said our wages have been frozen for the last 3 years, so do you really think the teachers deserve a raise? He actually said yes.

So here is my issue: I don’t like the fact that the teachers and the union are being so selfish that that are not willing to admit these are hard times, and everyone needs to tighten our belts to get through this. Plus – they have the gall to frame this as an attack on the education of our children. That is shameless.

One more example of unions: In our county, where the leaders are struggling to keep from having to eliminate jobs, the union filed a grievance because the county tried to change health insurance companies (which by the way was overall the same coverage) in order to reduce the cost. The union blocked this move, and guess what happened? People were let go. There was no money in the budget to pay them.

These student protesting are of the entitlement generation. They feel that a free education,or at least partially free, is an American right which it is not. Neither is free housing, food, day care or health insurance. The bottom line here is that the money is no longer there, programs have to be cut, this economy of government handouts is unsustainable.

Originally Posted by ClosetWriter

First let me say that I think this is a great topic to discuss. I admit that I don’t know all the details of the situation in Wisconsin. I live in Michigan, and for those of you that don’t know: Michigan has been hit by the current economic situation harder than anyone. Our new Governor just presented a budget that has many seeing red over his proposed cuts. These cuts included a significant amount of money per student. Now on the surface it seems that may anger everyone, but in reality it is a necessary evil. Governor Snyder basically told everyone that there is no more lying or sugar coating the facts. We are in trouble and these times require drastic actions. He said that this is not something that I am doing on a whim; this should have been done as long ago as the 80s.

As for the unions representing the teachers I feel that they need to wake up. I personally have several friends that are teachers. One of them recently told me that they have a new contract coming up, and he was going to wait to retire until after it because he would get a raise that way. I asked him, considering the current financial situation the state is in, did he really think they would get one. He said, “Oh yeah – the union will demand it.” My jaw dropped. I work for our local county, and I said our wages have been frozen for the last 3 years, so do you really think the teachers deserve a raise? He actually said yes.

So here is my issue: I don’t like the fact that the teachers and the union are being so selfish that that are not willing to admit these are hard times, and everyone needs to tighten our belts to get through this. Plus – they have the gall to frame this as an attack on the education of our children. That is shameless.

One more example of unions: In our county, where the leaders are struggling to keep from having to eliminate jobs, the union filed a grievance because the county tried to change health insurance companies (which by the way was overall the same coverage) in order to reduce the cost. The union blocked this move, and guess what happened? People were let go. There was no money in the budget to pay them.

Actually, if anything, I find your post shameless.

Why should someone go to college, teach primary or secondary school, and make chump change? Most of them have college debts to pay back on top of that.

And if someone has an advanced degree I have no problem with them making $80,000 or more a year. You can put me on record with that.

But you are right there is not a lot of money to go around and most states are facing a deficit. But the way I see it is that there is another alternative - one I'm sure you'll not like - raise taxes temporarily.

Originally Posted by Ditch

These student protesting are of the entitlement generation. They feel that a free education,or at least partially free, is an American right which it is not. Neither is free housing, food, day care or health insurance. The bottom line here is that the money is no longer there, programs have to be cut, this economy of government handouts is unsustainable.

The university students protesting were supporting their professors. The high school students protesting were both supporting their teachers and protesting more monetary cuts to their education.

Why UW-Madison would get cut off from the UW system I'm not quite sure. However, I'm cynical and my first thought is that Governor Walker and some other Republicans in Wisconsin (likely not Milwaukee) want to help create obstacles for racial minorities in Milwaukee and Racine to have access to UW-Madison. The University of Milwaukee Wisconsin enjoys far less national and international respect than UW-Madison. In fact UW-Milwaukee is ranked a 4th tier university - whatever that means.

Regardless, the UW system in this case is less my concern than MPS. I would hate to see MPS decline any further than what it has.

That said, in my opinion both the Democrats and Republicans are problems in this nation. At this point I can tolerate the Republicans more only because the Democrats largely supported the blaspheming of the Virgin Mary and Jesus.

However, I'm cynical and my first thought is that Governor Walker and some other Republicans in Wisconsin (likely not Milwaukee) want to help create obstacles for racial minorities in Milwaukee and Racine to have access to UW-Madison.

Race has nothing to do with it, there simply isn't the money for these "demands". It is not the responsibility or the position of our government to provide financial assistance for education.

My opinion is that money invested in education and health care is better spent than money funding military intervention in the middle east.

Originally Posted by Writ-with-Hand

Actually, if anything, I find your post shameless.

Why should someone go to college, teach primary or secondary school, and make chump change? Most of them have college debts to pay back on top of that.

No one said they should but since they are educated people they should be able to do some math... There is not enough to pay them. It is that simple and for them to say that is an attack on the education system is hogwash. What about all the other people that have to give concessions to help? Why do they think they should be exempt from feeling the pain of helping like others do?

And if someone has an advanced degree I have no problem with them making $80,000 or more a year. You can put me on record with that.

But you are right there is not a lot of money to go around and most states are facing a deficit. But the way I see it is that there is another alternative - one I'm sure you'll not like - raise taxes temporarily.

You are wrong -- I think that “should” be considered, but I also think that people shouldn’t be so selfish. Everyone seems to think that as long as they don’t have to tighten their belt that everything is fine. I am offended that they think that the cost of my education is not as important as theirs. I have not had a raise in three years; I am educated as well. I am in the technology field, and I know that my job is needed, but I am not arrogant enough to think that it “is” or “should be” exempt from the ax caused by budget shortcomings.

One last thing: Teachers work in the public sector. They chose to go into that line of work. When you have a union representing you as an employee in the public sector you are basically telling the tax payer you have to pay me more money no matter what is best for you; "that" is not serving the public. That is why there are laws that closely watch how public funds are being spent. I think that if they have such a problem with following this basic idea of public service that maybe they should try the private sector.

Unions are not there just to get salary increases. That's a misconception that fuels much anti-union sentiment.

Unions are there to see that the rights of workers are not trampled on by the bosses, no matter who those bosses are.

As Baron says, education and health care need to be top priority. Both are essential and should be the last to be sacrificed in any budget shortfall.

You want democracy, you'd better have good schools and be willing to pay teachers a decent wage and give them decent working conditions and the respect they should have as major influences in the lives of your children.

You want democracy, you'd better have a health care system that works for the entire population.

Neither of the above requisites has been met thus far in much of the developed world. A big part of the problem with education in the U.S. has been that very attitude that if a teacher is not satisfied with being among the working poor, the teacher should quit teaching and do something else. Well, face it. Many have done just that. How many of the best and brightest teachers have quit teaching, and how many of the best and brightest university graduates each year pass up teaching as a profession?

Should free education be a right? Think of the question from the other way around. As an adult, a citizen, shouldn't it be your right to live in a community where the next generation is literate and thus more likely to be gainfully employed? Or are you willing for a majority of the children in your town to grow up illiterate? Will that make life better for you?