Thread: Egypt in Deeper Chaos in Mere 24 Hours

Last Friday, I was watching the daily news when I saw Egypt on the screen with their people rallying on the streets demanding the resignation of President Hosni Mubarak. I pictured Egypt to be a regal country, and the demands of its people have brought a real shock to me.

Now, the winds seem to have changed course yet again. After a one-million crowd rallying in Tahrir Square calling for Mubarak to step down after 30 years of reign, there's suddenly these mobs of people whose saying otherwise! Looks like the demand is not so popular after all.

Nevertheless, I do hope a quick resolution regarding this matter be enacted.

How about you, WF? What are you're thoughts about this?

It's my greatest hope that the new Egyptian state, formed after Mubarak is gone (and he will leave, probably sooner than September), will not be a theocracy like Iran or a radical dictatorship like Iraq became after the Shah was thrown out. Not only for the sake of the Egyptians, but also because of Israel. The last thing Israel needs is a hostile state across its Southwestern border that very well might align itself with Syria. Furthermore, the blockade on Hamas controlled Gaza is as dependent on Egyptian border troops as it is on the Israeli army. If the blockade were lifted on the Egyptian side overnight, Hamas would have no trouble resupplying themselves with arms and munitions and would be able to easily move people in and out of Gaza (and then back into Israel). This would at the very least raise tensions in Israel. And Israel is powerful enough that if they sneeze the whole region will feel it. Worst case, the entire Middle East will be destabilized by an Egypt sympathetic to Islamic fundamentalists, commited to the destruction of Israel, and intensely hostile to the West..

Here's a link for people who want to read more on the issue, or keep up to date with it. I think it has all the information you need:

The Guardian: Egypt Protests - Live Blog

the entire Middle East will be destabilized by an Egypt sympathetic to Islamic fundamentalists, committed to the destruction of Israel

I'm not too up in these topics and should probably do some reading, but didn't the people of Israel murder and pillage all the local inhabitants of that country and drive them out? Then refuse them work and their rightful properties? And then build a big wall to keep the Palestinians out? Seems to me like the Middle East is already pretty destabilized.

Although, I am sympathetic for the Egyptian people. It's a really beautiful country and the locals are very nice as long as you respect their social stigmas (one girl I was with almost got punched because she went into a temple, and took off her shirt because she didn't want people telling her what to do. I would have smacked her too).
I heard, though, that they were protesting their leader because he refused to leave office, and was denying people some basic human rights--but, that's just the talk around campus.

I've just been listening to the coverage of what is happening in Egypt, what there is of it. I find it very very disturbing that one of the first casualties has been freedom of the press.

I'm talking to word people here on WF, people who believe in expressing ideas via words and I know that freedom to express them is a cherished right. So what is your feeling as you see journalists of all stripes, it didn't matter who they were, if they were from the press they've been attacked and suddenly the only source of news is the state-run media?

Put aside your feelings about which media stream is the best right now and think about what it is like to have a government suddenly curtail the freedom of the press.

Chaos, Violence Intensifies at Central Cairo Square

^ Very sad, really. I heard various networks reporting that their media equipment have been confiscated by the police. Other have been mugged my the protesters for believing they were siding with the opponent, whoever that opponent is. CNN, Al-Jazeera and BBC report these things and it's really, as you put it, disturbing. It's as if Egypt is trying to hide this mishap.

Originally Posted by Erin Moede

I'm not too up in these topics and should probably do some reading

If you are not up to speed, than I agree.

, but didn't the people of Israel murder and pillage all the local inhabitants of that country and drive them out? Then refuse them work and their rightful properties? And then build a big wall to keep the Palestinians out? Seems to me like the Middle East is already pretty destabilized.

...Yeah, you should do some reading. That's all I can say to address your points without spending a good half-hour writing a long, coherent post which will probably be ignored anyway.

I'll take a different bent on this-I find it amusing that American media is getting mugged over there:

1) American media has waded into the crowd acting as if the American Constitution and Bill of Rights applies to them in Egypt (and everywhere else) when it doesn't. By wading into the crowd, they are committing an act tantamount to running in a burning building without protective gear. Guess what ? You're going to get burned !!

2) I know because I see it every single day (even without the Egyptian crisis), but many in the American media are stuck forever in 1969. They are wading into the Egyptian mobs thinking they're protesting against the Vietnam War and Richard Nixon and they're going to give ol Richard what for. Guess what ? It's not 1969 anymore. Nixon is worm food. The world has moved on. The American media hasn't.

3) The Egyptian crisis is just that, an Egyptian crisis. The American media needs to butt out, let the photographers video everything from a distance, and once the dust settles, step back in.

I should mention that the anti-government protesters are not all saints either. The Egyptian military had to be deployed in front of the Museum of Antiquities in Cairo because looters were trying to rob it. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what an average Egyptian Joe would want to do with the skull of a Pharaoh.

Press people from Al-Jazeera got beat up, too, Dudester, as did BBC guys. This isn't just about Americans being there. Interesting that you're buying into the propaganda though. I'm surprised that you're amused that the freedom to report on what's happening in a public place is curtailed.

I think I assumed wrong about you, it's a surprise, I'll admit.

Edit:

I should mention that the anti-government protesters are not all saints either. The Egyptian military had to be deployed in front of the Museum of Antiquities in Cairo because looters were trying to rob it. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what an average Egyptian Joe could do with the skull of a Pharaoh.

Kind of sounds like the free-for all after Katrina, too. Half the stuff people were looting wasn't going to do them much good yet they still did it.

Originally Posted by Edgewise

I should mention that the anti-government protesters are not all saints either. The Egyptian military had to be deployed in front of the Museum of Antiquities in Cairo because looters were trying to rob it. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what an average Egyptian Joe would want to do with the skull of a Pharaoh.

Actually, the museum has gold, lots of it. Not to mention that there's probably a few expert thieves in the mob who'd love to score a unique item for a well heeled collector.

Originally Posted by Edgewise

Press people from Al-Jazeera got beat up, too, Dudester, as did BBC guys.

As I stated, it's an Egyptian problem-a family squabble. Let me put it this way, suppose a very ugly divorce was going on in your family. Would you want some noseybody reporter up in your face airing all your dirty laundry for all the world to see ?

Suppose there was an American civil war going on and you were very firmly on one side. Would you want some rteporter, that you don't trust, getting all the info and saying something like "Well, the Richmond regulars are ready, and they have their tanks in place and are going to start their approach up highway 101 at 6:01 a.m." How would you feel about that ? Do you think freedom of the press still outweighs all other concerns, especially, the sancity of life ?

Originally Posted by TheFuhrer02

Now, the winds seem to have changed course yet again. After a one-million crowd rallying in Tahrir Square calling for Mubarak to step down after 30 years of reign, there's suddenly these mobs of people whose saying otherwise! Looks like the demand is not so popular after all.

I listened to some debates. Apparently, these aren't just civilians who support Mubarak. After all, the average Egyptian isn't armed with guns and does not possess a few camels and horses to ride out on.
These are apparently thugs, hired, favored by the regime to suppress the opposition.

The military isn't suppressing the violence because they want to hedge their bets. They have ties with the Egyptian people and are not willing to break those by quelling the opposition (plus the world is watching). Then again, they aren't on a leash of a civilian body with the current administration. If they remove Mubarak there is always that risk that collar being wrapped around their necks. So, they are waiting it out.

And this is not to be confused with a sudden grab for Western democracy. The Egyptian people are simply sick of 30 years. They want jobs, opportunities, and most important, they want corruption out.

But I wonder who will fill in the power vacuum if Mubarak does decide to back down from power? What will the new face of the government look like?

My missus buys flour regularly, since before Christmas the price has risen from 85p to 116p, that's around a 40% increase, there has been a fairly repressive regime of one sort or another in Egypt since regimes began, it's the price of bread that brings them down, not polotics. Only rulers, the literate and the rich with time on their hands worry much about that sort of thing.

Originally Posted by guy_faukes

But I wonder who will fill in the power vacuum if Mubarak does decide to back down from power? What will the new face of the government look like?

That's the question, isn't it? As far as I see it, there's no one else to take the position, apart from vice-president Omar Suleiman. There's the Prime Minister, but since Egypt is a republican state, the VP is second in command, not the PM. There's the leader of the anti-Mubarak protesters as well, Elbaredei (who isn't even joining his followers in Tahrir Square, and is instead somewhere unknown in Egypt...), if I remember correctly. Despite the readiness of these two persons, the transition of power won't be smooth, and this will lead to instant anarchy in between the power change.

I believe the compromise Mubarak gave the protesters, that he would step down in September to ensure a smooth transition, is the most agreeable way to go. The only thing is, that announcement has had its credibility hit big time when these alleged "Pro-Mubarak Supporters," who are said to be hired thugs, came on to the scene.

Now, I'm not an Egyptian citizen, so I have a right to its affairs as much as everyone else here who's not Egyptian. However, to let this continue one without some show of concern, or some talk about it in any way as if we are not feeling anything about this, especially with the rights being violated there that we would cherish ourselves, is but a mistake in my humble opinion.

Who's going to replace Mubarak? What's going to happen next? I don't know. But I do hope a speedy resolution regarding this matter will be enacted very soon, for the sake of the Egyptians who've suffered enough during the ten days of violent protests, and during the 30 years of dictatorial rule.

P.S.
And would any member of staff be so kind as to move this to the Debates sub-forum, since this has indeed turned into some form of debating regarding current events. However, if this view is not seen by the staff, then by all means retain this thread here. Thanks!