Thread: Should smoking be illegal?

I think smoking should be illegal. The science is in—it gives you lung cancer and kills lots and lots of people. It's a highly addictive form of self-poisoning marketed as a stress relief drug and to some degree a fashion accessory, but these tiny, arguable pluses are nothing next to the toll it takes on people's health. Illegalizing cigarettes would give them the stigma they deserve.

I think McDonald's should be illegal. The science is in—it makes you obese which kills lots and lots of people. It's a cheap and readily-available form of self-poisoning marketed as hip, cool food and to some degree, with a health-conscious spin, but the plus of delicious, salty fries is nothing next to the toll it takes on people's health. Illegalizing McDonald's would give fast food the stigma it deserves.

If health concerns are your only issue, what are your opinions on currently illegal drugs with less/no long-term effects to one's health?

I apologize for being extremely snarky. I am le tired.

Let's have a high street druggist where you can buy anything, prescription drugs, cigarettes, heroin, alcohol, anything. It would be like the sex shop, no under age admitted, no advertising, and you would get all the details with any product you bought, like you do with medicine now. Let's face it if people are going to use these things they will find them, legal or not. This way the price could come down to about the same price as spices, so they don't need to thieve and rob to get a supply, and the criminal world would be deprived of a large part of it's income. revolutionary elements also trade in drugs to buy arms, Mao traded in opium in the early days, Hezballah would be skint without the Bekah valley, and Shining path and Farque used cocaine profits.
Basically I am against making anything illegal, there are some idiots that would make it attractive to, the other idiots will find it anyway. But I would put them all somewhere not made especially attractive; where you have to go out of your way for it, not in every corner shop, and it is adults only.
With possible exceptions for things like antibiotics that lose their effectiveness if overused.

Pollution should be illegal, well it is, but it's done anyway. No I do not think smoking should be illegal and I don't smoke...well nothing legal

I suppose we'd have to make alcohol illegal too, then.

I'd rather people made a conscious decision that they weren't going to smoke, regardless of availability. I prefer that to the idea of just banning everything we dislike. If people still want these things, as Olly said, they'll find a way to get them. Legally or illegally.

The only reason you look for cigarettes is because you are addicted to them or you want to sell them.

I think rural farm life in the past - while no guarantee of protection from substance addiction or "vices" - offered social and psychological guards against some of the problems that comes with urbanization. Especially urbanization on a large scale. Put the farm aside and just look at small town Tomah, Wisconsin with approximately 5,000 people. Alcohol, crack and other things are available there are dysfunctional families as well as poverty can be found. Nonetheless, people are still valued as people. Who's valued as a person in London or a megalopolis like Sao Paulo in Brazil? Only the sufficiently well-to-do. To a lesser extent those within insular neighborhoods that essentially function as "small towns" like Tomah within big cities like Liverpool and Toronto value their own residents to varying degrees.

Why people will take up use for the first this or that are many. It's almost like me querying why are people Baptist, Pentecostal, Mormon, agnostic, atheist, soccer players instead of ballet dancers, runners rather than bodybuilders, take up one occupation as opposed to another, prefer this attribute in a woman rather than that attribute. The long and tragic scope of alcoholism and domestic violence on Amerindian reservations cannot be simply reduced to an intellectual choice to have simply gotten the fancy to "look for" this or that.

My father is one of the angriest men I have ever known in my life. To this day in road rage he frequently chases people and jumps out of the car on them. His home life was as dysfunctional as they come. What was learned? His father has only recently given up alcohol and womanizing and only because he's in his 80's and can barely remember one thing from the next. My father was a federal agent and is religiously a Democrat. By contemporary wisdom in a city run by Democrats that essentially makes him sober of mind and as close to sainthood as anyone can get. But I hear people say all the time, "My [father/mother/grandpa] told me [passed wisdom] X, Y, Z..." My father has only given me to words of advice (wisdom) throughout my entire life. One: never go anywhere without money in your pocket. Two: if someone offends you the only thing you can do for them is kill them. The only two things ever told me. In Milwaukee the only problem with the world is Republicans.

When I got to using crack I began with others already using it, some of who included a friend since high school that was a former U.S. Army Ranger and Desert Storm vet, and others in the room included two uncles - two of my fathers brothers. One of them was quite pleased hen I finally became addicted. All of life is not simply intellectualized formulas like algebraic problems.

Originally Posted by Writ-with-Hand

The only reason you look for cigarettes is because you are addicted to them or you want to sell them.

I think rural farm life in the past - while no guarantee of protection from substance addiction or "vices" - offered social and psychological guards against some of the problems that comes with urbanization. Especially urbanization on a large scale. Put the farm aside and just look at small town Tomah, Wisconsin with approximately 5,000 people. Alcohol, crack and other things are available there are dysfunctional families as well as poverty can be found. Nonetheless, people are still valued as people. Who's valued as a person in London or a megalopolis like Sao Paulo in Brazil? Only the sufficiently well-to-do. To a lesser extent those within insular neighborhoods that essentially function as "small towns" like Tomah within big cities like Liverpool and Toronto value their own residents to varying degrees.

Why people will take up use for the first this or that are many. It's almost like me querying why are people Baptist, Pentecostal, Mormon, agnostic, atheist, soccer players instead of ballet dancers, runners rather than bodybuilders, take up one occupation as opposed to another, prefer this attribute in a woman rather than that attribute. The long and tragic scope of alcoholism and domestic violence on Amerindian reservations cannot be simply reduced to an intellectual choice to have simply gotten the fancy to "look for" this or that.

My father is one of the angriest men I have ever known in my life. To this day in road rage he frequently chases people and jumps out of the car on them. His home life was as dysfunctional as they come. What was learned? His father has only recently given up alcohol and womanizing and only because he's in his 80's and can barely remember one thing from the next. My father was a federal agent and is religiously a Democrat. By contemporary wisdom in a city run by Democrats that essentially makes him sober of mind and as close to sainthood as anyone can get. But I hear people say all the time, "My [father/mother/grandpa] told me [passed wisdom] X, Y, Z..." My father has only given me to words of advice (wisdom) throughout my entire life. One: never go anywhere without money in your pocket. Two: if someone offends you the only thing you can do for them is kill them. The only two things ever told me. In Milwaukee the only problem with the world is Republicans.

When I got to using crack I began with others already using it, some of who included a friend since high school that was a former U.S. Army Ranger and Desert Storm vet, and others in the room included two uncles - two of my fathers brothers. One of them was quite pleased hen I finally became addicted. All of life is not simply intellectualized formulas like algebraic problems.

Do you think smoking should be illegal, Writ?

If people chose to smoke that's up to them, same as alcohol. Making it illegal wouldn't stop it being used only drive it underground as it has drugs. People will still use it Holland has th right idea but then I also think prostitution should be legalised and taken off the streets and into the safer environments of brothels.

This is one of those issues that's none of your business...until you have a stake in someone else's behavior. Nationalizing health care makes everyone's behavior everyone else's business. People are very aware of the consequences that come with smoking but they still do it. I don't mind if they do it provided that I don't have to pay for their treatment when they get lung cancer.

tl;dr: No. It wouldn't work, we've tried this already, and you're not my mom, government.

As a practical matter, there are too many people already addicted. Something like 44 million Americans alone smoke, and most are productive members of society. Are we fining them, or incarcerating them like we do other illegal drug users? Besides that, cops smoke, so enforceability is an issue. Anyway, didn't the US try this with the Prohibition? That went well...

The ideal has its share of issues as well. I feel it's the government's job to regulate safe supplies and educate people on the risks of drugs. It's a personal choice to indulge in risky behaviors. Tell me what will happen, but don't tell me what to do, kinda.

The base assumption is that quantity of life is the most important thing. What if we want a "shortest candle burns the brightest" lifestyle?

Originally Posted by Elric Randall

tl;dr: No. It wouldn't work, we've tried this already, and you're not my mom, government.

As a practical matter, there are too many people already addicted. Something like 44 million Americans alone smoke, and most are productive members of society. Are we fining them, or incarcerating them like we do other illegal drug users? Besides that, cops smoke, so enforceability is an issue. Anyway, didn't the US try this with the Prohibition? That went well...

The ideal has its share of issues as well. I feel it's the government's job to regulate safe supplies and educate people on the risks of drugs. It's a personal choice to indulge in risky behaviors. Tell me what will happen, but don't tell me what to do, kinda.

The base assumption is that quantity of life is the most important thing. What if we want a "shortest candle burns the brightest" lifestyle?

The choice that Thetis was given; that her sone should have a long life and die in obscurity or that he should have a brief life and leave a name that would be known by every generation. The shortfall is that smoking doesn't turn anyone into Achilles.

Another thing that has burned me about smoking as long as I've been aware of it...the government here levies 'sin taxes' against things like cigarettes. My thought on this is...if they want to discourage the behavior then make it illegal already! However, now the gov't has a financial stake in the sale of cigarettes...it's never going to be illegal no matter how they try to shame people into quitting if they keep raking in taxes. Hypocrisy at its finest.

I wouldn't assume the "sin taxes" are the government's way of getting people to quit (though it has driven some people to do so). I'd think it's more of an opportunistic means of pulling in more cash from people who will complain, but still pay up in the end. If anyone honestly feels shamed by the government for buying tobacco, they've got deeper personal issues to deal with. Methinks your bias is beginning to show.

Originally Posted by ODaly

If health concerns are your only issue, what are your opinions on currently illegal drugs with less/no long-term effects to one's health?

I have my share of opinions on other drugs, but that's not the topic of debate.

Originally Posted by shadows

If people chose to smoke that's up to them, same as alcohol. Making it illegal wouldn't stop it being used only drive it underground as it has drugs.

Do you think driving it underground would be a bad thing? I don't think it would be. True, people would still seek it but they'd have a harder time, and I think fewer people would be wanting to seek it; cigarettes aren't worth the same risk as other drugs because they don't offer the same euphoric (or hallucinogenic) effects. Considering how addictive they are, though, it's a safe bet that many already addicted people would continue to seek them.

This somewhat addresses Olly's thoughts and a few others' thoughts.

Originally Posted by Foxee

This is one of those issues that's none of your business...until you have a stake in someone else's behavior.

There's an argument that addiction makes the individual no longer free; they can't freely leave cigarettes because they're addicted. If someone can't freely choose to quit then that's good grounds for outside interference, namely illegalizing them. But they shouldn't be illegal just to buy, but also illegal to manufacture. Why should we as a society let something that kills so many people be legally produced?

Those are some interesting points, Elric, though I don't think illegalizing cigarettes is analogous to the prohibition of alcohol. The two drugs are rather different beasts.

Originally Posted by Elric

The ideal has its share of issues as well. I feel it's the government's job to regulate safe supplies and educate people on the risks of drugs. It's a personal choice to indulge in risky behaviors. Tell me what will happen, but don't tell me what to do, kinda.

I disagree. No supply of cigarettes is a safe supply if they kill you. The personal choice can still be a personal choice, but also illegal. And this argument only applies to buying them—you knew what you were getting into when you signed up, sonny—but what about manufacturing cigarettes? Should something that is guaranteed to kill people—arguably against their will if they're addicted—be legally manufactured?

Originally Posted by Baron

Do you think smoking should be illegal, Writ?

I don't smoke (other than crack). Every blue moon I might smoke a cigar. By every blue moon I mean once every few years. I'm not fond of marijuana. I prefer a cigar to marijuana. But I think crack, cigarettes, marijuana, and cigars should all be legal.

The American mafia used to be heavily involved in the selling of cigarettes. They used to hijack truck loads of them. I'm told in Milwaukee when the mob ran the vending machine business (I'm making the assumption they no longer do) they used to fill them with packs of stolen cigarettes.

I have developed more Libertarian views towards "liberty," government and economics. I'm probably not a Libertarian but I have leanings that way. So, let me have my gun and cigarette if I want or feel I need them.

Also... there was violence involved during American prohibition between gangland mob wars. Violence revolving around cocaine in the U.S., Mexico, and Brazil would plummet once those nations legalized cocaine and corporations used the civil ethical means of the court systems to solve their grievances over debts owed. And outlawing cigarettes will just open a large black market. The City of Milwaukee after I got out of the Marine Corpse did one of the most asinine things a "city" can do. In the effort to curb armed robberies and gun violence it mandated no alcohol can be sold after 9 PM. Now it costs a cat going to an "after hours" 3 to 4 times the cost of a can of beer after 9 PM and people, stores are still getting robbed and people are still getting shot in Milwaukee. No cosmopolitan and "urban" city should stop selling alcohol before small towns. People will still buy cigarettes if they're made illegal, but the underground market, like Olly pointed out, will skyrocket the prices.