Thread: John Lennon's Killer

Originally Posted by Robinjazz

I have read the passage. What is your point?

You're very sure of yourself and quick to judge somebody else.

Originally Posted by Baron

How on Earth can you make a statement like this and then claim not to be making any judgement of Yoko? Yoko, Sean and Julian are victims of this tragedy, none of them are the ones to be put on trial.

Who's putting them on trial? Devastating for the family, of course. Let me ask you another question: Should a person who is completely rehabilitated remain imprisoned 25 years after committing the crime?

Baron, I don't put too much stock in Scripture. Native-Americans told priests who were trying to convert them into Christians, "You talk about God, but we talk to Him." With all that Scripture, what happened to the tribes? They were rounded up and sent to live on barren grounds.

So much for Scripture. You want to live right--show it through your actions. Don't read me any flowery words while you're sticking your hand in my pocket for my wallet.

Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater

You're very sure of yourself and quick to judge somebody else.

The only thing I'm sure about now is that I should have kept my thoughts on this matter to myself.

Consider it a lesson learned -- and please keep it in mind going forward.

Originally Posted by Robinjazz

Who's putting them on trial? Devastating for the family, of course. Let me ask you another question: Should a person who is completely rehabilitated remain imprisoned 25 years after committing the crime?

Baron, I don't put too much stock in Scripture. Native-Americans told priests who were trying to convert them into Christians, "You talk about God, but we talk to Him." With all that Scripture, what happened to the tribes? They were rounded up and sent to live on barren grounds.

So much for Scripture. You want to live right--show it through your actions. Don't read me any flowery words while you're sticking your hand in my pocket for my wallet.

A few questions:

What on Earth have the Native Americans to do with this?

How am I sticking my hand in your pocket for your wallet? I don't see you paying for anything on this site.

If you reject the idea of Scriptural authority then you're recommending a theological free for all, so how can anything you put forward be accepted as valid? You're the one who keeps bringing in the name of Jesus and yet you reject the Scriptures that testify about him. At the same time you take out of context quotes from these same Scriptures in an attempt to justify your view.

What evidence do you have that Mark Chapman is rehabilitated?

Originally Posted by Baron

A few questions:

What on Earth have the native Americans to do with this?

How am I sticking my hand in your pocket for your wallet? I don't see you paying for anything on this site.

If you reject the idea of Scriptural authority then you're recommending a theological free for all, so how can anything you put forward be accepted as valid? You're the one who keeps bringing in the name of Jesus and yet you reject the Scriptures that testify about him. At the same time you take out of context quotes from these same Scriptures in an attempt to justify your view.

What evidence do you have that Mark Chapman is rehabilitated?

You. You. You. I. Me. Mine.

Who's referring to you?

You seem to be making such a fuss about my judging others. And, I agree with you. You happen to be right. Big mistake on my part. However, you don't come away with clean hands on this judging matter either.

You suggested (in a clever way) on another thread that people who hear spirit voices are mentally ill. Is that not judging? How can you make a statement like that?

There's a saying that goes something like this: "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

Good luck.

Originally Posted by Robinjazz

You. You. You. I. Me. Mine.

Who's referring to you?

Originally Posted by Robinjazz

Baron, I don't put too much stock in Scripture... Don't read me any flowery words while you're sticking your hand in my pocket for my wallet.

I think it might be good for a cap to be put on this thread, or for it to be discussed with a 'clean slate'. It seems it's getting a little too heated for a quiet Friday evening.

Originally Posted by Robinjazz

A body without a spirit is lifeless, and I doubt that a body can be raised from the dead. According to Scripture that has been tampered with by powerful men for the sole purpose of enslaving others just doesn't fly in my book.

To the wicked popes and other evil leaders the "fire of hell" was more sufficient then a 100,000 man army to keep the masses in check. Do you really need evidence? Perhaps, scientific too?

As far as what you think about judging others. Well, anyone who puts himself in an authoritive positive ought to be judged. Had Hitler been judged sooner, perhaps a war could have been avoided.

I'm not trying to attack you, Robin, and I have no idea if the dude in prison should go free or not. Actually, I thought you raised a valid question about love, peace, and forgiveness. Not to say I took a position. I agree with the opposing side as well, that forgiveness is a personal thing with no date attached nor can it simply be reasoned out - at least not entirely.

But why do people always make statements like the above I highlighted, as if the only holy book that exists on earth is the bible, and the only religion Catholic or Christian?

I mean Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and Muslims all have their holy books. So far as I can tell Tehran and Nepal don't look any more free of suffering and struggles than Venice or Milan.

And let me just provide you with a little insight contradicting the image of Pope that ruled all lands with secular authority. Charles the 5th sacked Papal Rome driving the Pope into fortress hiding. The Spanish controlled most of Italy, the Netherlands, and God knows what else for a long time. It was actually the Pope who ordered (as usual most Papal orders were never followed by lay Catholics) the Amerindians not be enslaved of have their possessions stolen.

And I know you will respond one of the Popes divided the world up between the Spanish and Portuguese. As arrogant as that may have been, that was before a time of international laws as we know them, and the Pope himself may well have been acting diplomatically to resolve conflicts between two major powers of the time.

And you can make negative generalizations about a few white ethnic or European nationalities in the same way one does about Catholicism or Christianity. Look at Africa. That continent was carved up geo-politically by whites. And whites eventually colonized most the earth's land mass.

So, all life woes can simply just be traced back to Catholicism and Popes. What was there before Popes on earth? Paradise? And by the way... I'd prefer to live in Rome than cold %&% Tibet. Feel free to fly there and sit cross legged if you wish.

Originally Posted by Robinjazz

Who's putting them on trial? Devastating for the family, of course. Let me ask you another question: Should a person who is completely rehabilitated remain imprisoned 25 years after committing the crime?

Baron, I don't put too much stock in Scripture. Native-Americans told priests who were trying to convert them into Christians, "You talk about God, but we talk to Him." With all that Scripture, what happened to the tribes? They were rounded up and sent to live on barren grounds.

So much for Scripture. You want to live right--show it through your actions. Don't read me any flowery words while you're sticking your hand in my pocket for my wallet.

Okay... this is all straying off topic. But first of all, many if not most Amerindians liked Priests. In fact I'd say in general they liked Priests more than you do. The Mayans today are more Catholic than most mestizo Mexicans, Spaniards, or Italians. My brother stayed with the Mayans in Mexico when he was contracted to film some commercial for Altera Coffee or whatever it's called. They are hardcore Catholic.

And as I've pointed out in a different tread, it was the belief in the apparition of the Virgin Mary, the mestiza "Our Lady of Guadalupe" to an Amerindian Catholic Juan Diego, that converted millions of Mexican Amerindians to Catholicism. It was a belief and visual image - not the bible or written words - that sparked the conversions.

In North America Priests were scattered and few for the most part. That was in both the French and Spanish territories. An Indian tribe that converted to Catholicism might have saw a Priest who passed through only once a year.

Not all Priests were noble or treated Amerindians fairly or well. But I think the Jesuits in general have a good history among the Amerindians in North and South America. You can read about the Jesuit run Reductions. If you do please compare that to general life of Black-Americans in modern day Detroit, or better yet, compare the Amerindians life in the Reductions to poor whites and blacks in Southern Alabama all the way into the 1960's. If I remember correctly, the highest punishment in the Reductions was expulsion. That would only help to corroborate the point that life was pretty good in the Reductions compared to what one faced outside the Reductions (e.g., no welfare system, free medicine, free housing etc.).

And I'll tell you what happened to most of the Amerindians South of the U.S. boarder, and with the exception of a few countries like Argentinian (almost all white), if they weren't killed off, or if they did not retreat into jungles and mountains, they largely became mestizos or mixtures of black and white.

can someone tell me how the catcher in the rye translated in 'kill john lennon'?