Thread: Existence of God

EDIT: Just thought I would jump in and let everyone know this topic was not started by me but by Lamperoux, and was mistakenly merged by an editor. If he was inspired by my topic, and I suspect he was, I'm grateful for the recognition of my precedent, even if I wasn't attempting to start a debate. Needless to say, I consider any debate on the subject largely pointless.

This is an answer to Epic's question:

How can one be an agnostic Jew? I'm confused by this. Does that mean you're not sure whether or not the Jewish God exists, but you're pretty certain the rest don't? Just curious.

In short, I don't know which religion, should He exist, He belongs to. I don't take the majority of the bible or any other religious text for that matter literally, so how could I really say?

I've always thought agnosticism was more not thinking God's existence mattered one way or the other. I lean towards atheism more now but I think about the concept more often too. (My dad likes to joke that atheist Jews talk about God more than others.)

At first this resulted in seeking the conversion of theists (perhaps I regressed). But I've spent time tried to come up with a working philosophical definition and I think it has mellowed me out.

I went with "the unknown" at first, based on every culture's gods generally being mysterious forces outside of their control such as the wind and earthquakes. I think the Jewish scholar Rashi had a similar belief. Now I think I tend to agree with Freud that the concept of God is the projection of humanity's desires, but I think it goes deeper than Him being "dad."

For example, in the Torah (Old Testament), God's creation is described as occurring in a very special way involving his spirit, light, opposites, self-criticism and resting. I see these as analogous to the human creative process probably best described in the Tao Te Ching, however I think the knowledge can be ahieved through introspection and meditation (encouraged by Taoism and Judaism inter alia).

This theory raises particularly interesting philosophical questions for my atheism since, if our consciousness is similar to the Creator of the universe, and the Creator of the universe had no consciousness, then we don't either. This might be similar to Descarte's watch analogy, though the opposite of his mind/body distinction. I'm not sure. Perhaps there is a theory of emergent intelligence out that fits better that I have yet to read.

The inverse perspective can raise theological questions as well. For one, supposing emotion is the source of creation, what emotions did the Creator have as described in Genesis? It's a doozey to think about. Maybe he was thinking about high things and low things and chaos and order, and trying to make an environment for a reflection of himself to exist (us), just as we project His existence onto the universe.

To answer your question more honestly, I think the most important parts of the religion consist mainly in the community and the practices and not so much the beliefs, so if I'm a hypocrite, I don't think it's too big a deal. Judaism stresses doing good deeds (mitzvot) many of which can be followed without any theism involved at all.

Several times, there are threads that turn into religious debates. Give your opinions here.
I believe that man does not know who god is, if he exists at all. I think religion is to contradictory and numerous through out time for it to be real. Religion seems to be highly influenced on geographical areas in which they exist or originated from. I do not, however, believe that stuffing atheist beliefs down religious throats will do anything for people in the world.

also, keep it civilized people (no bashing other people). It's hard to do, but try)

I believe that the whole life after death thing came up to stop people from being savages. For example, if the people believe that theres punishment in the afterlife for killing then they won't go on killing sprees haha

But then again I'm young so what do I know?

I don't think advising people to channel their anger (as an equivalent to logic) into a thread about the existence of God is a good idea. People won't keep it civilised if they are pouring their anger into any such discussion. As always, it'll become a platform to bash certain beliefs. It's like waving the red flag in front of the bull. It's difficult enough to have respectful conversations on the internet over such subjects without legitimising anger in the OP. Sorry to have to say it.

Whatever.

I wonder what the OP means by (no capital) god?

*gasp* =O haha

So I'm guessing this debate is going nowhere....farewell gentleman!

I am taking your post as a question asking whether I believe there is a god of any sort. If I have misunderstood the question then I apologise.

The answer is no, I do not believe in any sort of supernatural being. I have never been a sceptic, a doubter, or an agnostic. I know what I have believed since I was eight years old and read the Bible for the first time. Before then I had not given any thought to the matter.

In my daily life if the question never comes up, I never say anything on the subject. If I am asked, I will answer. If the question leads to a discussion, I will state my case and listen as the other person states his case. I do not try to convince others, but when others try to convince me I will answer their arguments.

Aggressive efforts to change another person's religious beliefs are, in my opinion, morally wrong.

okay...let me change the anger part...

i mean, to peacefully discuss these sorts of things. Think about it, in the world of debate, this is the greatest debate subject--the existence of most of the human race believes in.

What i mean by civilized is not bashing others, as in lets say mer said something, and a pain in the ars began targeting him and arguing with him, and he argues back. I'm not trying to insinuate that Mer is gonna do something, just using someone as an example.

I know this can devolve into an angry flurry of posts, but might as well try to keep it civilized, no?

If you check back through the posts in the debate forum you'll find this is the one that comes up most often. It's a bit like a tune that draws one to it at first but that gets tiresome when it's been played a hundred times.

well, of course it would. Like i said, it is one of the greatest debate topics, along with stuff like 'is man really as civilized as he proclaims' and even something like that leads to the God debate.

Keep it civilised, absolutely, but make it interesting as well. Actually tell me about something you believe in, not what you don't believe in.

Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater

Actually tell me about something you believe in, not what you don't believe in.

What do I believe? Well it's quite simple, really. I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky. I think about it every night and day. Runnin her hands through my fro. Bouncin on twenty-fo's. This is the remix to ignition. Hot and fresh out the kitchen. Mama rollin that body got every man in here wishin. Sippin on coke and rum. I'm like so what I'm drunk. It's the freaken weekend baby I'm about to have me some fun.

Originally Posted by Lamperoux

Several times, there are threads that turn into religious debates. Give your opinions here.
I believe that man does not know who god is, if he exists at all. I think religion is to contradictory and numerous through out time for it to be real. Religion seems to be highly influenced on geographical areas in which they exist or originated from. I do not, however, believe that stuffing atheist beliefs down religious throats will do anything for people in the world.

What exactly is 'stuffing' and 'throats' a reference too anyway?

Originally Posted by Blood

What exactly is 'stuffing' and 'throats' a reference too anyway?

"Stuffing" is a word which puts the fear of God into turkeys.