Thread: Evangelical Proselytizing- Altruistic or Offensive?

At what point does proselytizing move from good spirited and selfless to offensive or condescending?

The answer must account for the belief among some evangelicals that by pushing the word they are engaging in a benevolent effort to save souls otherwise destined for damnation. In this light, the time and energy devoted to convincing and converting others can be viewed as a genuine act of altruism.

The answer also needs to take into account the offensive implication inherent in the very act of proselytizing; that alternative systems of belief/faith are seriously (to put it mildly) flawed, to the point that their adherents are fated to eternal damnation entirely on the basis of their distinct (from evangelicalism) belief/faiths, irrespective of how closely they may or may not correspond to what we might call Judeo-Christian ethical values.

Is it possible to reconcile these two very different dimensions of the same act?

Imo, this is an important question that will never stop being relevant (and very well may never be resolved). I'd just like to hear more peoples, hopefully sober, take on it.

It is not a question particularly well tailored to shots of whiskey .

According to scripture, Jesus assigned Christians the duty of proselytizing. It's done at his direction, for the believer's benefit, to fulfill the requirements of the religion. Not really altruistic. Of course, centuries of doctrinal contraversy have seriously muddied these waters. Still, many door-to-door evangelicals acknowledge this to be the case, if one asks them carefully. I always try to bring this to attention, for I feel they ought to make sure they're getting full heaven points. This isn't necessarily incompatable with providing an other-world benefit to the redeemed unbeliever, but it certainly changes the equation, especially when that attempt is overtly bothersome, if not downright insulting.

I always enjoy and, indeed, look forward to Christians who come to preach at me. I've converted at least two to atheism and have turned several others into agnostics. Many of them have never studied the Bible closely and are surprised when I point out some of the activities that have biblical approval.

I also enjoy encounters with sincerely devout people of any religion who offer to engage in reasoned debate without making any effort to change what I believe. I have had some very good conversations on spirituality and ethics with Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, and, more recently, believers in traditional Mayan religion.

I don't foist my ideas on religion on them and I don't want to know about theirs. The fact that they believe it is for my benefit or that they have some duty is neither here nor there as far as I am concerned. I do not share that belief and their proselytizing shows no respect for my beliefs, so why should I show any for theirs? Most will desist if I say something like "Oh go away and leave it out will you? I don't want any of that nonsense", one particularly persistent Jehovah's Witness I told "I believe that the only way that such variety could occur was through natural selection from a chaotic state, that therefore I believed in chaos and that as such I was, in terms of his belief system, an agent of the devil and he should have no truck with me". It actually worked, he thought for a second and then turned on his heel and left. I do not share their beliefs, I do not feel I have any right to try and impose mine on them, that they feel the opposite strikes me as the arrogance of ignorance.

Here we go again... It never ceases to amaze me how many "anti-religious" people religiously home in on a topic such as this as if it's an irresistible magnet.

When I come across a thread like this it makes me glad I'm an apathete.

I think some would do well to adopt a policy of attraction, rather than promotion. Trying to force a message on people who aren't receptive is usually a waste of time and often has the opposite of the intended effect. If you live your faith, you'll have more success attracting people who are seeking. In other words, I think waiting for a teachable moment or recognizing the point when someone might be receptive -- or responding when asked -- is the most effective way of spreading a message.

Otherwise, when I hear complaints from people about Christians evangelizing, proselytizing or somehow forcing their beliefs on others, I have to ask -- where does all this go on?

The answers are usually something about TV preachers or some guy they saw on a street corner. Or maybe someone they run into once in blue moon who pushes his or her faith. Or heaven forbid, someone comes to their door once a year. It generally amounts to an occasional annoyance rather constant harassment. I think the problem is greatly exaggerated by overly sensitive non-believers who see the occasional or accidental exposure to anything Christian as some sort of assault their personal freedom. Mostly -- they're looking for it. One friend of mine was greatly offended by a local mega-church's billboard campaign -- images that he might see out of the corner of his eye for two seconds. Give me a break.

Maybe you have family members who are trying to save you. That's different. Or maybe you live in some podunk bible belt town and everything is centered around church activities. Otherwise, it's usually bitching and moaning about people who have fish stickers on their cars or some TV evangelist they saw for half a second while flipping through the channels or maybe some pandering politician who mentioned God in a speech on CNN. (When it comes to TV in general, you're a thousand times more likely to see some snide joke about Christians than anything that might pass for evangelism.)

Yeah, I occasionally come across someone who is trying to force his beliefs in some condensing way. It's annoying. I'm a Chrisian and I don't like it. I was at a dinner party not too long ago and the host basically forced everyone to gather and hold hands and listen to him pray before dinner -- and it made my skin crawl. But realistically -- is this a big problem?

And when it comes to offensive and condescending -- wow -- I see plenty of it from those who see this differently than I do. I think it really depends on which side of the fence you're standing.

Is it possible to reconcile these two very different dimensions of the same act?

Usually, no. The idea that you're saving someone from damnation is at the core of most Christian evangelism. There really isn't much to question. Whether or not you're offended might depend on how the message is delivered -- or it might just be your problem.

There needs to be some balance in a thread like this. I used to receive visits from a pair of Jehovah's witnesses who were very decent and unassuming people. When they first showed up on my doorstep, my initial reaction was one of "here comes the God squad" (I didn't profess any belief at the time), but when I started speaking with them, I was cool with them because they showed me respect and seemed to care about what I thought about various things concerning metaphysics and the Bible. After having one or two conversations with them, I invited them to have tea with me inside where we could discuss all this sort of thing in more detail. They were delighted by that and accepted my invitation. Our conversations continued whenever I was available to receive them and during that time, I didn't try to put them down or even change their mind about their beliefs, I was more interested in thinking about the subject because I didn't give it any real deep thought at school or in college (although I was very dismissive of religion in general). For whatever reason, the two Jehovah's witnesses I'd actually become accustomed to stopped visiting and a different pair visited me one day. They were the complete opposite. They asked me whether I believed in God or not and when I said I didn't, one of them actually looked at the other and started smirking, not even hiding her disdain. They were rude and didn't seem interested in dialogue, so I took offense and was especially forthright in telling them exactly why they were wrong about pretty much everything and closed the door on them with a firm "good day". That was the last I saw of them.

In life there are people who will meet you on equal terms as another person and show you kindness. There are also others who will try to ride roughshod over you, but it's a shame when you adopt the approach of those people yourself just because you've had a negative experience with them in the past. If you don't want to see that kind of behaviour, don't exhibit it yourself. Have some self-respect and some dignity and behave in a manner that is becoming regardless of what you believe. If you're chasing people off your doorstep on first sight, without giving them a chance, you're just as bigoted as the second couple who showed up on my doorstep. My approach has been wrong at times as well, so I am not claiming to be exempt from my own criticism, but it does cause me to anger when I see people continuing in the same mistake and having a self-congratulatory attitude towards it.

I find evangelical proselytizing to be a breach of etiquette. In other words, it is bad manners. Although I have an open and inquiring mind, I must confess some immodest amusement at those who are obviously less intelligent and less analytical arriving with the Truth, to set me free.

What angers me about the practice is that in my community (and throughout the United States, I would expect), the people who do this door-to-door are actually targeting and taking advantage of the vulnerable elderly.

Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater

If you're chasing people off your doorstep on first sight, without giving them a chance, you're just as bigoted as the second couple who showed up on my doorstep.

Not really, mermaid. One is absolutely entitled to refuse audience to those who show up unannounced on one's doorstep, particularly those who wish to sell you something, whether that be a vacuum cleaner or membership in a religious denomination. Their act of intruding into your life without invitation is one of rudeness and invasion. I do think one ought to be polite in one's dismissal of unwanted encroachers, but they have no right to anything other than a summary dismissal.

St Frances of Assisi said "preach the gospel at all times, when necessary use words."

Jesus never forced anything down anyones throat, but he preached love. I think alot of Christians could learn from this idea of actually treating people with Christian love even if those people have no interest in learning about God/Jesus/Christianity.
In doing so, Christianity could actually make the world a better place.

I am a practising Christian but I dont see it as my responsibility to push my religion down anyones throat unless they ask. I do however, see it as my responsibility to love people and do what I can for them...with no motive other than love...not to try and later convert them!!

Originally Posted by alanmt

Not really, mermaid. One is absolutely entitled to refuse audience to those who show up unannounced on one's doorstep, particularly those who wish to sell you something, whether that be a vacuum cleaner or membership in a religious denomination. Their act of intruding into your life without invitation is one of rudeness and invasion. I do think one ought to be polite in one's dismissal of unwanted encroachers, but they have no right to anything other than a summary dismissal.

If I wasn't clear the first time round, I won't be the second either.

I'd rather have 10 Jehovah's witnesses knock on my door then one neighbor kid selling cookies or wrapping paper. You can be rid of the J.W. in three seconds with a polite, "Sorry, we're busy." Not so the kid, especially if you're friends of the family. And it will likely cost you something to boot.

Originally Posted by Msweeble

St Frances of Assisi said "preach the gospel at all times, when necessary use words."

Nice one.

Mermaid on the breakwater - Your story illustrates one half of what I was saying. Respectful discussion is one thing. Condemning my beliefs out of hand and preaching at me is something else.

Jehovah's Witnesses I treat a bit differently from all the others. I tell them I would like for them to explain some verses from the Bible, which they say they will be happy to do. I then hand them my Nestle New Testament. When they say they can't read it, I ask them how they plan to explain something to me that I can read and they can't. Then I ask them to pleas go away, and they do.

I had one look at the Nestle once and say he couldn't read Chinese.

Baron - You are right. We tend to crawl out of the woodwork at the first sniff of a thread such as this. The problem with such a thread is the likelihood of rapid deterioration into bitter argument. I have one more comment, then I will go away and watch from a distance.

Years ago when I was living in Belize City I often saw a young man begging in the neighbourhood where I lived. He was probably around 20, dirty, dressed in rags, of very dark skin but with the coppery tint to his hair that often bespeaks serious malnutrition in a person of African descent. I often bought him food, and stood by to make sure he started eating it and wouldn't sell it to buy crack, to which he showed every sign of being addicted. One day I was sitting in a restaurant and through the window saw boy standing at the edge of the street begging from people who passed. His approach was always respectful, which always made me think he originally came from a decent home. Most crackheads are aggressive in their approach, as though you owe them something. This kid was not that way at all. He would hold out his hand and say, 'Please a dollah?'

In the restaurant that day were some ten or a dozen very well dressed gringos talking loudly about the good work they were doing among the heathen. They were God's Army, sent to show these Poor Lost Souls the way to righteousness. They were all expensively dressed, each equipped with Bible and satchels filled with pamphlets.

As they walked out the the restaurant the kid by the street approached, very humble in posture, and held out his hand. The leader of the group said something to him I couldn't hear and shoved the boy hard enough to make him fall backward into the drain. The others were looking back and laughing as they walked away.

Best now I say nothing further on the subject of religion.

I did my Mormon proselyting mission in Texas, Dallas metro area, and east to the border, 1997-99. I wouldn't have called it Evangelical, it was typically one on one or a willing family, not what I imagine as Evangelical. My views on proselyting are relatively similar now as they were then, but somewhat toned down. For me, it was all about accountability. By my beliefs, if you did not know right from wrong, “truth” from “error”, you were not held accountable for your actions, or your decisions. You wouldn't be sent to Hell for never even having the chance to hear the name “Jesus Christ”. The opposite belief was held by many of those I still encounter, dooming millions, if not billions, to a fiery eternity, merely because no one had run through their village screaming “Jesus!” like a madman.


My job was to give you the opportunity to become accountable, to give you the chance to choose to accept or reject my version of the truth. Shoving religion down someone's throat, not having a Christlike attitude, a willingness to teach or be taught, all these things prevent a religious discussion that will benefit both sides of the proselytizer's fence. Sure, there are bad ones, and they pretty much ruin the reputation of the good ones.