Thread: The Proposed Mosque at Ground Zero

There is mixed feeling and a lot of opposition to the proposed Islamic centre at Ground Zero. Obama has stated that it would be "un-American" not to permit the building of the mosque. Much of the affront concerning this project stems from the fact that the real estate has become available as a direct result of Islamic terrorism.

Could the propsed name, "Cordoba Mosque", be adding more salt in the wound? This name would cynically hark to Islamic triumphs over Christians. Why that name? The appellation “Cordoba” holds significance for Muslims. It’s the city in southern Spain that recalls for Muslims the Islamic conquest of Christian Spain. It reminds anyone who knows history how the Islamic conquerors, at one time, turned Spain into a Muslim country.

This whole project appears an exercise in extremely bad taste at best.

I'm just curious about whether it will be Starbucks or McDonalds who get the coffee concession.

I've not followed this very closely, but as I understand the proposed location for the mosque is only close to 'ground zero', not part of the site. And the mosque itself is only one part of a larger Islamic cultural centre. Baron is correct that naming it Cordoba Mosque waves a red flag at Christians. It's the sort of thing I would do.

In my opinion, it doesn't really matter if it waves a red flag at anyone. People in this country are free to practice their religion and free to purchase property on which to do so. Not allowing the mosque to be built is just about as un-American as I can imagine.

Originally Posted by Motley

In my opinion, it doesn't really matter if it waves a red flag at anyone. People in this country are free to practice their religion and free to purchase property on which to do so. Not allowing the mosque to be built is just about as un-American as I can imagine.

I agree. The main problem with the protests is that they began with the vague ideas that this one religion should be exempted from American constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion, and that amorphous unproven security fears and the delicate sensibilities of nonadherents to that religion should trump first amendment rights. The opposition is tainted with anti-islamic prejudice, given that none of these so-called reasons have ever been applied to other religions. Certainly, using the offensiveness to victims mantra, a strong argument could be made that catholic churches where pedophile priests were stationed should be razed to the ground so that the innocent child victims don't have to be reminded of how they were sickly abused.

But that's just not how we do things in America.

I believe that they have the right to build it, I don't know anyone who is arguing that they don't. I also believe that they are being disingenuous as to their reasons for building it there, and that it is in extremely bad taste to do so.

Baron is correct that naming it Cordoba Mosque waves a red flag at Christians. It's the sort of thing I would do

.I wonder, are you a Moslem, do you detest Christians, are you simply a GOM?

a strong argument could be made that catholic churches where pedophile priests were stationed should be razed to the ground so that the innocent child victims don't have to be reminded of how they were sickly abused.

What a good idea, how do I start a facebook group.

I am with the great political philosopher Gerard Winstanley, practicing the profession of lawyer or priest should be a capital offence.

I find Obama's comments on this interesting. He has stated that it would be unconstitutional not to allow it. Right wingers accused him of supporting the project because of this. This caused him to respond with a statement that he was not in a position to make a judgement about whether the project should go ahead and that his statement should in no way be read as support of the project. Is this fence sitting or wisdom, I wonder?

Originally Posted by Baron

I find Obama's comments on this interesting. He has stated that it would be unconstitutional not to allow it. Right wingers accused him of supporting the project because of this. This caused him to respond with a statement that he was not in a position to make a judgement about whether the project should go ahead and that his statement should in no way be read as support of the project. Is this fence sitting or wisdom, I wonder?

I believe it is Political Game Playing through and through. The November elections are fast approaching and all the politicians have both sides of their mouths talking.

Olly - Please define GOM.

As it happens I'm an atheist, have been since the age of eight when I first gave any thought to the matter and decided to find out by reading the Bible. That did it for me.

I don't hate Christians, but I do hate the way some people of any religious group treat those who are different. I had a Jewish grandmother from Germany, an Irish Catholic/atheist grandfather, Baptist parents, and one redneck holiness uncle who used to drag me to tent revival services. My brother was a Methodist. I grew up in a family that taught, not toleration, but respect for all manner of people, no matter their race, their religion, their culture. I believe that my background is what allowed me to survive in the midst of wars and revolutions.

I love religion, and that is, I suppose, an odd thing for an atheist to say. I love the music, from Bach to the Happy Goodman Family. I love the solemn ritual of a sung mass, whether RC or C of E. I love the joyful expression of hope in a holiness revival.

My comment that 'that's the sort of thing I would do' is a reflection of a streak of wickedness inherited from my mother. If there's a string hanging down with someone daring the world to give it a pull, I'm likely to volunteer. When a neighbour of mine in Belmopan started running out and yelling at kids to stop setting off fireworks in the street one Christmas, I slipped 20 bucks to one of the kids and that financed a pretty good show, part fireworks and part watching the idiot running in and out of his house.

GOM, acronym for grumpy old man, I get called it all the time

Why does calling it the Cordoba Mosque wave a red flag? I could be missing something, but as far as I know it sounds like it's just being named after one of the great mosques in Spain. And it's actually Cordoba House, not mosque, because it's a community center, not a mosque.

There's a strip club, restaurants, and Christian churches within several blocks of the memorial. All this fuss is just xenophobic bs.

Originally Posted by Gumby

I believe that they have the right to build it, I don't know anyone who is arguing that they don't. I also believe that they are being disingenuous as to their reasons for building it there, and that it is in extremely bad taste to do so.

It's only in bad taste if you believe that, because some sections of a group are terrorists, everybody else should hang their heads in shame and try their best not to be seen lest they offend someone's delicate sensibilities.

Hmmm, that may be your definition of bad taste, but it's not mine. I'm always amazed when someone who knows nothing about you tries to put words in your mouth. According to my definition of poor or bad taste, I stand by my original statement.

Olly - Oh. Okay. Yeah, I'll accept that designation but only on condition that Ox does too.

Gumby, I have heard statements and read articles and posts by many people who are indeed arguing that they don't or shouldn't have the right to build it: that Islam is a political movement, not a religion, so the first amendment doesn't apply; that the first amendment was only really meant by the founding fathers to apply to Christian and Jewish religions, and that first amendment rights must yield to security concerns.

I have even heard the crazy position that the first amendment guarantees of religious freedom should not apply to Muslims in America because they are not granted by the Saudi government to Christians in Saudi Arabia.