Thread: The Real Thing

Originally Posted by garza

....

Surely there are others here who can relate to what I'm saying?

i tried it on for a few minutes to see if i could relate, but it didn't fit, not even badly, i don't get it

the closest i've been to mortal combat is fighting with kids over who's turn it is on the computers

even then i manage to be the last cab off the rank, i can't be bothered, i prefer peace and quiet

Amazon.com: My War Gone By, I Miss It So (9780140298543): Anthony Loyd: Books

This is right up your alley Garza. You are not alone in the feeling.

I want to read the book. Related, see this:

YouTube - 10 minutes by Ahmed Imamovic

Most of the people who looked forward to joining the army, that I knew anyway, were the ones who weren't particularly bright and weren't that great at sports either.

You're right. The bright ones join the RAF.

If the Navy wouldn't have them.

Originally Posted by Baron

The bright ones join the RAF.

By the ring around his eyeball
You can tell a bombardier;
You can tell a bomber pilot
By the spread around his rear,
You can tell a navigator
By his sextant, maps and such
And you can tell a fighter pilot
BUT YOU CANNOT TELL HIM MUCH.

Originally Posted by garza

You haven't lived until you've gone into a combat situation armed with notepad, pencil, and camera.

Whilst we all agree that war is wrong, blah blah... you have a point. Tim Page was one of the greatest Vietnam war photographers. He was seriously injured four times, including a piece of shrapnel lodged in his brain. I saw an interview with him before he died, where he was basically expected to condemn war. He refused; he said war was the most exciting thing he'd ever experienced. He'd travelled in helicopters, been shot at (and shot), travelled in helicopters, driven a train... he loved it.

I also saw an interview with a young british soldier in Helmand, who'd seen a lot of action. He said before you find yourself in that situation, you never know how you're going to handle it, and he was proud that he'd been tested under fire, and stepped up to the mark.

We can all prattle in about the "puerile aggrandizement of institutional violence" and the wrongness of war, but it doesn't take away from the fact that the human race is inherently self-destructive and that some people thrive on it. Tell me you've never watched a war movie or any violent action movie and not got a vicarious thrill from it.

I enjoyed "Kelly's Heroes". Apart from that I hate war movies generally.

Originally Posted by Mike C

We can all prattle in about the "puerile aggrandizement of institutional violence" and the wrongness of war, but it doesn't take away from the fact that the human race is inherently self-destructive and that some people thrive on it. Tell me you've never watched a war movie or any violent action movie and not got a vicarious thrill from it.

I've never got a vicarious thrill from watching a ridiculously over-the-top war movie. To me, they're all so unrealistic it's impossible to take them seriously. The director tends to think that by being grotesquely graphic that substitutes for realism, which it doesn't, it's just offensive to see someone's guts hanging out. the ones that did touch me were based on books I had read, such as: Regeneration, which had more focus on the way the fighting had affected these people, although the book was better. Action movies tend to be all bluster with little plot development. If you like watching people performing kung fu on each other or just endlessly firing bullets at each other with no end result, I guess they're OK. Not for me, although there are a few that appeal to me as a form of fantasy or escapism. Still, there's a massive gap between enjoying an action movie or a video game where you know it isn't real, and actually thinking shooting a gun at somebody else who's breathing, has thoughts, a unique sense of self and emotions of their own is a good idea. There's no real comparison.

Originally Posted by Mermaid on the breakwater

...actually thinking shooting a gun at somebody else who's breathing, has thoughts, a unique sense of self and emotions of their own is a good idea. There's no real comparison.

You miss the point. I never said that war, or people killing each other in the many and various ways the human race has devised to do so, was a good thing. I'm a pacifist. But it's impossible to deny that many people get a thrill out of death and destruction vicariously, and a number - not everyone, for sure - find the real thing exhilarating. You don't have to agree with it to acknowledge it as a fact.

Originally Posted by Baron

I enjoyed "Kelly's Heroes". Apart from that I hate war movies generally.

Everyone likes Kelly's Heroes. It makes killing funny. (I just checked; 124 deaths in Kelly's Heroes)

Originally Posted by Mike C

Everyone likes Kelly's Heroes. It makes killing funny. (I just checked; 124 deaths in Kelly's Heroes)

When Kelly does a deal with the officer in charge of the German tanks it shows how people can overcome their differences for a common cause

An amusing thing about old war movies -- Germans and especially Japanese all scream when they're shot -- "AahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhY!!"

American soldiers always die silently, with a far off look, like they're thinking about mom, apple pie etc.

Originally Posted by Mike C

You miss the point. I never said that war, or people killing each other in the many and various ways the human race has devised to do so, was a good thing. I'm a pacifist. But it's impossible to deny that many people get a thrill out of death and destruction vicariously, and a number - not everyone, for sure - find the real thing exhilarating. You don't have to agree with it to acknowledge it as a fact.

I didn't mean "good" thing in a moral sense. I don't find the idea of shooting at somebody, or being shot at, exhilarating. I don't doubt there are people who do and find it exhilarating to experience some small part of it, even if it's only vicariously. I am not sure exactly why that is. Some tribal instinct I don't share. I understand you're not turning war into a thrill-seeking adventure, just commenting on the motivating factors for some people.

The funny thing is, I don't know that I'd describe myself as a pacifist.