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About LinkBacksThe biggest worry for me is Sharia Law in the West and the threat this poses to our liberty and to things such as women's rights.Originally Posted by lin
The biggest worry for me is Sharia Law in the West and the threat this poses to our liberty and to things such as women's rights.
What? You're worried about non-muslim countries passing muslim laws that affect non-muslim women?
I respectfully disagree.
Threats to kill someone for their governmentally protected speech is a form of terror. It is terror designed to inhibit the exercise of the very freedom which our nations recognize as an inalienable right.
I believe in showing respect for other people’s religions as a matter of basic human courtesy.
But I also believe that these threats are real.
The proper response to such threats is not to limit one's speech, which in fact is the effect intended. It is to say to the radical murdering scum who don’t believe in free speech:
Bring it on. Commit a crime, and we will get you and you will pay the price a civilized society places on such barbarism. We are not sacrificing our guarantee of free speech to your barbaric violence.
Do not think it a kindness.
I am certainly not advocating limiting one's speech, and I think the threat is greater than that of various Muslims killing cartoonists (which is bad enough). What I question is where this is being directed. If you throw rocks at a hornet's nest, how is that going to be beneficial to you? Rather than being stoic, the message of draw Muhammad day, I certainly think, is to reinforce in the minds of Muslims, in various places around the world, what they've been told all their lives about the West. The motive for this day is questionable and so is the effectiveness of it, quite frankly. As Olly pointed out earlier in this thread, for him and many other atheists, this is simply a chance to ridicule religion, and in this case that religion is Islam. These are the same people who draw pictures of zombie Jesus, they're not the guardians of my human rights and basic liberties. They're quite childish.
Well no, because, as you yourself point out, most moslems are that nuts. They don't freak out about what people in other countries are doing. And don't go kill them for it.
If it became established that attacks and theats by islamic terrorists on artists would lead to flooding the world with ridicule, you'd start seeing a shift. You'd start seeing leaders telling these locos to lay off because they're only increasing the problem.
Yes he probably is. I read somewhere that the Archbish of Canterbury plus some British politico or other, whose name escapes me, have been giving serious thought to the issue.
Of what? Making non-muslim women wear veils or whatever? I really, really doubt it.
It is naive to think we're talking about something as all or nothing as that at this moment in time. It doesn't make any sense to say that because Western women are not being forced to wear veils right now there's no concern over the implementation of Sharia Law here in the UK and that it isn't something that will continue to grow in influence with a growing Muslim population. By the way, none of that has to happen for those of us who are concerned to be justified. For instance, why should we have one set of laws for one set of people and another set of laws for another in the same country? Those are, in my opinion, sufficient grounds for protest. I don't think a Muslim man should be allowed to tie his wife to his bed and beat her here in this country. I don't think a woman's testimony should be less than that of the man who has inflicted harm upon her here in this country. I don't think adulterers should be flogged in public (nor in private). It doesn't require a long list in order to make the point.
There have also been cases where Christians, who have been sharing the Gospel with Muslims, have been arrested for a supposed hate crime in trying to convert Muslims to Christianity and yet, at the very same time, we have Muslim fundamentalists converting children below the age of ten to Islam with no punishment. Why the double standard? And in a Christian country? Hard to believe but true.
This is the clash of ideology I am referring to. Muslims are hypocrites when they crticise everything other than Islam under the sun but then threaten violence against those who criticise Islam. It is in clear writing in the Qur'an that those who do this are mischief makers and those mischief makers are to be imprisoned, have hands or feet cut off on opposing sides or be put to death, and if you read the Qur'an and any decent commentary from one of the respected Muslim scholars, you will know that a mischief maker is somebody who spreads unbelief. This explains the attitude of a percentage of Muslims towards criticism of their religious beliefs and practises. I don't see how we can ignore something like that, and if we do, we're foolish to. Rather than drawing pictures of Mohammad, these are the things so-called proponents of free speech should be raising with Muslims in the sake of public awareness and in order to challenge Muslims in their own approach to such verses. That is more productive, to my mind, than drawing pictures of Mohammad, which isn't doing anything to tackle in a serious manner what it is Muslims believe.
Last edited by Patrick; 05-29-2010 at 01:47 AM.
Sure it does. You're talking about something that affects the Muslim population. Not others. You're going out of your way to worry about something that is of no real threat to you.It doesn't make any sense to say that because Western women are notbeing forced to wear veils right now there's no concern over theimplementation of Sharia Law here in the UK and that it isn't somethingthat will continue to grow in influence with a growing Muslimpopulation.
You'd be better off worrying about suicide bombers blowing you up for cartooning.
(For one thing...that actually happened)
Why do you afford the Muslim population some kind of separateness you don't grant to Christians or other faith groups? You are aware we have very large communities of Muslims here in the UK?
Abso-fucking-lutely correct.
With all this zealotry floating around (and not just with the Muslims), you'd think it was 732 all over again.
Yes I am aware of that. And if I hadn't been I certainly would have picked it up from your hysterical posts.Why do you afford the Muslim population some kind of separateness youdon't grant to Christians or other faith groups? You are aware we havevery large communities of Muslims here in the UK?
I am not affording anybody any separateness or anything else. I have no idea how you interpreted that from what I said, but it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. But I've seen that before.
Try not to put words in other people's mouths. And if you do, try to make sure they fit. And are sane. OK? Thank you.
Rubbish, what do you call very large? What % of the british population do you think are even nominally Muslim, never mind the % that are fanatical or extremist.
A comment like this tells an ignorant observer absolutely nothing.
Better he goes to find the facts in an attempt to repudiate me and discovers the truth for himself than I quote figures at him he rejects.
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