krazyklassykat

I'm writing a narrative for English 101. I'm working on the final draft now, and I thought I had it down pretty well, but then today the diagnostic essay came back, and I had several punctuation errors, all places where I'd put a comma. They were not comma splices, the teacher has another number for those. But I guess I'm not really sure about comma placement. I know you need one after a long introduction, and I thought all of my misplaced commas were after one... but obviously I've done something wrong.
I'd really appreciate it if you'd take a look at my essay and tell me where I've got the commas wrong, why it's wrong, and how I can remember that it's wrong. I'll change the text color of the parts where I'm not sure about the commas, but if you see any others please let me know.
Thanks!



Some years ago there existed a Mexican restaurant in my hometown that hosted live music every Friday during the summer. The bands weren't always very good, but they were local and they were live, so much of the town usually turned up anyway. I was only fifteen by the time the restaurant closed down because of unreasonable rent, and so the Friday-night dances weren't a scene I was too familiar with, but I had been to a few of them with my mother. At one, we had told a a boy I was crushing on that we were sisters; my mom has always looked young for her years. But another night I spent in the courtyard of Santa Fe was one I will never forget, and have recounted many times before now.
That night, it was not just me and my mom, but also my friend Amber, who happened to be the younger sister of the man my mother was dating at the time. Amber and I were not inclined to dance, and we mostly sat at tables and ate or listened to conversations. After a while the music got too loud, and we retreated to stairwell leading to some offices that looked out onto the courtyard. We were picking at tortillas and rice and feeling rather left out, wishing we could be somewhere more fun for young anti-social teens like ourselves. After some time, we heard footsteps approaching, and two boys about our age walked into the stairwell. I didn't pay too much attention to their appearances, but I do remember that one was tall and lanky, while the other was a little plump. The first time they walked by, they just looked at us for a few seconds. I didn't know then that we would be seeing a lot of these boys that night.
They seemed to have formulated a plan by the time they walked by again, because this time, they walked by, and then stopped, as though having remembered something, and the plump one said to me, "Do I know you?" That was about the lamest pick-up line I had ever heard.
"I don't think so," I said.
"What's your name?"
"Kahlilah," I said, trying not to scowl; if this boy had ever known my name, he would have remembered it. My name being unusual was apparently a complication he hadn't planned on, because he said nothing more and kept walking. But the two of them strolled past us many times that night. A little while later, we finished eating and moved. Amber and I stood in the outdoor hallway overlooking the courtyard and watched the bad dancers. The boys passed us twice there, too, and the second time asked if we would like to dance. We said no, thank you, and giggled after they left, wondering which one was for whom.
Later, we were strolling on the ground level outside the courtyard, where some of the partiers had spilled onto the sidewalk. We had seen the boys several more times, and by this time began to feel that they were following us. Sure enough, when I turned, drink in hand, I saw them emerging from the crowd. They were definitely following us. My adrenaline spiked, and I decided to try to shake them off. This night was about to get interesting.
"Over here!" I said to Amber. I knew the plaza rather well, and so I knew that if we turned the corner and passed the interior designs store, there was an alleyway we could dart down and hopefully lose them. I suppose I wasn't thinking very clearly, for my only thought was that if we ran fast enough, they wouldn't see where we had gone. It did not occur to me how much worse it would be if they guessed our route and we ended up cornered in an alleyway by our stalkers. I set down my drink, lest I should have to break into a run, and grabbed Amber's arm. We began walking briskly and turned the corner. Before we did, though, I turned around and saw that the boys had left the crowd and were still following us. Amber saw, too, and squealed as she dropped her drink and broke into a run. The whole thing was rather exciting, really. I laughed at Amber's outburst and told her that was why I had set my drink down. We ran down the alleyway and saw that it turned at the end; it was not a dead end, thankfully. It turned to the right, towards the back of the restaurant, and I suspected it came all the way through opposite of where we had left. I didn't have time for much more thought, though, because I heard the footsteps of what was certainly the boys following us. A wild, irrational fear pulsed through me as I picked up speed. What if these boys were actually dangerous? We turned another corner and there was a gate. The bars were spaced far enough apart that we could slip through, but it did slow us down. I realized the boys were catching up quickly, so I beckoned to a low, canopy-like tree, and said to Amber, "Get under here!" I quickly scampered under the tree, but when I turned around to spy on the boys, my heart dropped into my stomach. Amber was not there.
I heard the footsteps slow, and some voices. Then the boys appeared to turn back the way they came. When I felt safe enough, I ventured out from under the tree and ran back into the dancing crowd, frantic. I found my mom and asked if she had seen Amber.
"Yeah, a few minutes ago..." she said. This was not absolute enough for me to believe that my mom had seen her AFTER the whole fiasco in the alley, so I quickly ran off and kept searching.
Eventually, I did find her. Apparently she had kept running after I had ducked under the tree, and slipped back into the crowd. But, she told me, the boys had apprehended her first. Jesus, I thought! These boys sure were persistent.
"What reason did they give for chasing us through an alleyway?" I asked incredulously.
"They said you forgot your drink, and they wanted to bring it back to you."
I have always found this to be very ironic, because of course I had set down my drink in an effort to get away from them.



Oh, and let me know if you have any non-comma-related pointers. Thanks!

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IWriteUWrite

"Some years ago there existed a Mexican restaurant in my hometown that hosted live music every Friday during the summer."

Comma after 'some years ago'. I'm pretty sure proper grammar calls for one there even though it's not really necessary.

"The bands weren't always very good, but they were local and they were live, so much of the town usually turned up anyway."

This one is confusing. Because if you remove what is in between the commas it reads: "The bands weren't always very good so much of the town usually turned up anyways." I'd split the sentence up. "The bands were local and they were live. At least that gave most townsfolk reason to show up even though the music wasn't always that good." Something like that. Also, you can never use the word 'very' and your writing will always be stronger.

"That night, it was not just me and my mom, but also my friend Amber, who happened to be the younger sister of the man my mother was dating at the time."

I think the first comma applies to the same rule as my first comment: Proper but not necessary. Drop the second comma. "But also my friend Amber" isn't a complete sentence. Add a comma after 'friend'.

"After some time, we heard footsteps approaching, and two boys about our age walked into the stairwell."

Fine except commas after 'and' and 'boys' might be needed.

"The first time they walked by, they just looked at us for a few seconds."

Drop the comma.

"They seemed to have formulated a plan by the time they walked by again, because this time, they walked by, and then stopped, as though having remembered something, and the plump one said to me, "Do I know you?"

Drop the first comma. Add a comma after 'because'. Drop the comma after 'by' ('and then stopped' isn't a sentence). A few other problems. It's too long. 'Walked by' is used too often. You could end the first sentence after 'something' and start a new one.

"Kahlilah," I said, trying not to scowl; if this boy had ever known my name, he would have remembered it."

Drop the semicolon. Add a period. Drop the comma after 'name'.

"A little while later, we finished eating and moved."

I'm pretty sure you can drop this comma.

"Later, we were strolling on the ground level outside the courtyard, where some of the partiers had spilled onto the sidewalk."

Drop the comma. "Where some of the partiers (not a word) had spilled onto the sidewalk" isn't a sentence.

"We had seen the boys several more times, and by this time began to feel that they were following us."

Either drop the comma or add the word we after "time". Also, change "by this time" to "now" - 'time' is repeated too often.

"Sure enough, when I turned, drink in hand, I saw them emerging from the crowd."

Fine.

"I suppose I wasn't thinking very clearly, for my only thought was that if we ran fast enough, they wouldn't see where we had gone."

Drop the comma. Again, you can drop 'very'.

"Eventually, I did find her."

Fine.

Mike C

Crap. It's fine as is.

No, it's not - the commas are used parenthetically.

Whick particular kind of fuck-witted imbecile are you? Do you have a list of banned words, or do you make it up as you go along?

Krazy, you don't have much problem with your comma use - but you will if you don't ignore the idiot above. Give some thought to the natural rhythms of speech and commas will generally suggest themselves. Also look at longer sentences that employ several commas; does that need to be one sentence, or could it be two? Should that comma maybe be a semi-colon?

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Sam Winchester

Mike is right. There's nothing wrong with your usage of commas in that piece. Generally commas are used where you pause. So read the sentence back to yourself and if you pause somewhere during it, chances are you need a comma. Exceptions are "a minute later she walked on" because the pause is minute.

Sam.

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Ungood

College... first year! Hope you like it!

I am not a grammar guru... I leave that to better people then myself.

Grammar is sooooooo NOT my thing... so if all you want is comma help... I can't do a thing for you...

But... I can say... you have more issues with this then just your comma placement... allow me to entertain you... just for a moment..

Quote:

Some years ago there

Quote:

existed a Mexican restaurant in my hometown that hosted live music every Friday during the summer.

Not to be hard but...

This is dead... not life... no pull.. not feeling the flash back at all...

I would almost guess I am reading a text book here not a longing filled reminisce story full of fond memories (or horrid nightmares).

Your opening is emotionless and I might add...not informative.
"I remember in my youth" set the scene and put it in place, this is a flash back... so the reader need to know that, this is not the into to some historical work...

"There was this amazing little Mexican hangout called (Give me a name that does not sound like a rip off of Taco Bell) that would host local live bands. Some of the bands could not string a song together if they were paid, which explains why they were never paid, but that did not pull away from my love for the Friday night daces my mother and I would go to.... Blah blah blah.. Long deep sigh of falling back on wonderful memories... you get the idea...

Quote:

The bands weren't always very good, but they were local and they were live, so

Quote:

much of the town usually turned up anyway. I was only fifteen by the time the restaurant closed down because of unreasonable rent, and so the Friday-night dances weren't a scene I was too familiar with, but I had been to a few of them with my mother. At one, we had told a a boy I was crushing on that we were sisters; my mom has always looked young for her years. But another night I spent in the courtyard of Santa Fe was one I will never forget, and have recounted many times before now.

This is a narrative... first person flashback.. that means you are talking to me right now...keep that in mind as I say this...

Read this Out loud... or if you can... have someone ELSE read this to you... it will help you greatly...

Ungood.

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babeonownbike

Technically you may have placed your commas correctly, but you would do well to use more periods. Many sentences are too long. I agree with Mike C - ask yourself if one long sentence might not better be two shorter sentences.

If you, as ungood suggested, have someone read this out loud to you, someone unfamiliar with it previously, you'll see they have a difficult time knowing when to take a breath or how to properly place the emphasis.

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IWriteUWrite

"Some years ago there existed a Mexican restaurant in my hometown that hosted live music every Friday during the summer."

Comma after 'some years ago'. I'm pretty sure proper grammar calls for one there even though it's not really necessary.


Crap. It's fine as is.

No, technically, it's not fine. Proper sentence structure calls for a comma after an introductory phrase, which is what "Some years ago" is. However, as I stated above, it is not entirely necessary. Seeing how this paper is for a class with a seemingly strict teacher I thought it best to advice the OP how to format it correctly. You chose to advise her how to do it incorrectly.

The bands weren't always very good, but they were local and they were live, so much of the town usually turned up anyway."

No, it's not - the commas are used parenthetically.

Fair enough. However, you conveniently left out the rest of my advice. The sentence could stand to (though not need) be changed.

Whick particular kind of fuck-witted imbecile are you? Do you have a list of banned words, or do you make it up as you go along?

Actually, the word 'very' ('really' is another one) is poor writing. It weakens the statement of the sentence. Sure, it's simple, but that's what makes it weak. Instead of using a more powerful literary tool (a metaphor, perhaps) to show the reader strength of writing the author is opting out with an easy fix.

I apologize for making you look dumb after you went off on such an ill-informed tirade.

Ps: You spelled "which" wrong.

Sam Winchester

When the pause in a piece of work is minute enough, a comma can be omitted. Examples include: A minute later he came back. Now, you can either have the comma or not. It's entirely the writer's own prerogatory. This applies to the opening sentence.

Why does the second sentence need to be changed? There are four types of commas, Iwrite: listing, joining, gapping and bracketing (otherwise known as parenthetical). A bracketing comma is actually a mark of a good writer. Example: My father, who'd recently retired, was considering going back to work. In this sentence I've imparted two pieces of information. I could have inserted that piece of information with an em dash also.

I seem to recall the words "very" and "really" in the dictionary, which means they can be used in writing. Words like "kind of" and "sort of" on the other hand, may be construed as being poor writing. However, I understand what you're trying to say.

Sam.

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Sam Winchester

There is also one more type of comma I've forgotten: The serial comma.

Used in: a series of three or more terms with a single conjunction. For example: red, white, and blue. Gold, silver, or copper. In the names of business firms, the comma is usually omitted: Brown, Shipley and Co.

Sam.

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Mike C

No need to apologise, you're still a fuck-wit for arguing over nothing. You're full of shit.

"it is not entirely necessary" and "could stand to (though not need)" make your assertions nonsensical.

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NaCl

This Purdue link offers a great guide to the use of commas. I printed it and use it as a reference when I proof my story after the initial manuscript is complete.

Using Commas

After reviewing my first few manuscripts using this guide, I find that my first drafts now incorporate most necessary punctuation without a conscious effort.

The other thought that comes to mind is, as writers, we have a certain "license" to be creative with grammar. For example, a carefully inserted comma might create a desirable pause in dialog, yet that punctuation could be completely out of place from the perspective of proper grammar. Your English teacher will grease her shorts over such transgressions, but if they make your story flow better, then screw the teacher. (disclaimer: this attitude is not recommended for papers you must submit for a grade. It is intended only for your personal writing.)

One more thing, when considering commas between clauses, "dependent subordinate" clauses do not require them! The difficulty is determining whether the subordinate clause is dependent or independent, thus requiring a comma. Some will be obvious but this "dependent" determination is often subjective. In my opinion, the writer's choice is correct if there is any doubt...with one exception - arrogant English professors ALWAYS think their opinion is above reproach.

Good luck.

.....NaCl