Hostile Intent (Revamped) - Page 4 - Writers Forum

Sam Winchester · 04-10-2008, 02:30 PM

I'd hold you to that, Kang! Thanks for the kind comments.

Sam.

Terri_Molina · 04-10-2008, 02:35 PM

Hi Sam,

You're going to be my first critique since joining the forum (but I have a feeling it's not going to make me very popular)

Keep in mind, it's only my opinion and not meant to offend you.

You seem to have a good premise going. Tring to find who and why someone was kidnapped can always make for a suspenseful read.

My first problem with this story/writing is the POV....you don't seem to have one except for yours. You're telling everything the characters are feeling and not showing it (through their mannerisms or emotion.) Even your dialogue tags are telling.

The first sentence of your first chapter is considered author intrusive. Saying Butler knew he shouldn't have stopped and it was the worst ten minutes of his life takes away from the suspense of the robbery (which I found predictable). You also end the chapter with the gun being pointed at Michele's head and let the reader assume she is killed, then later you say she was just kidnapped. To me it was cheating...like opening your book with a very intense action scene then having the character wake up only to discover it was all al dream.

In my opinion, I think you should scrap chapter one and start your story with chapter two. In fact, I think this sentence

Being dead for three minutes was the highlight of Derek Butler's existence.

is a great opening line.

The scene you pasted above, which I assume is either a continuation of chapter two or the start of chapter three, felt too rushed. If Fines is integral to the story, introduce him earlier, in his element, so we can get a better idea of who he is. Same with Butler. Don't say he served in the Marines, show it through the dialogue (maybe he's addressed by his former rank or maybe he's at the VA).

I think you can make this a great read. Just needs a bit of tightening.

Good luck to you!

Sam Winchester · 04-10-2008, 02:48 PM

If your critique is honest and well-founded, you aren't going to offend me, Terri. I'm not expecting everyone to love this piece. All critique is welcome. However, a few things you said I didn't understand.

Firstly, I'm a confessed Tom Clancy afficionado. I've read everything he's ever written. So, my style is loosely based around his. I don't know whether he "shows" or "tells," but, as has been pointed out on this forum before, you don't have to show everything. I agree that my first line may give away the plot. I appreciate what you're saying on that part.

The whole point of showing him holding the shotgun to Michelle's head, and then ending the chapter without telling what had happened, was designed to build suspense, to keep the reader reading on to find out what happened. Removing that first chapter will mean that I will have to, later on, either explain what happened through a flashback or dialogue. That, to me, is sloppy writing.

Bear in mind that this is only the first few pages - I haven't introduced another POV yet. I will shortly.

Thanks for taking time to read. I appreciate your input.

Sam.

KangTheMad · 04-10-2008, 05:53 PM

I don't care if you hold it to me im going to buy it no matter what. True there are some questionable lines and grammar, but thats usual. I would be shocked if there wasn't. Heh, my favorite Tom Clancy book was The Bear and the Dragon. Some awesome action in that.

Metok' Ha'esh!

gr8writer · 04-10-2008, 06:13 PM

Okay, I read your story but I couldn't find anything wrong with it it was good and kept me interested all the way through. I'm not very good at critiquing am I?

Sam Winchester · 04-10-2008, 06:22 PM

Don't agree with you on The Bear and the Dragon, Kang. I think that's one of Clancy's weakest books. In my opinion, Clear and Present Danger or Without Remorse are his best books.

Sam.

Sam Winchester · 04-10-2008, 06:24 PM

Gr8writer - Thanks for the read.

Sam.

KangTheMad · 04-10-2008, 07:10 PM

Thats the wonderful thing about forums Sam. We can settle our differences with words instead of bullets and explosives. Keep on the awesome work! Patriot Games was good though...

Metok' Ha'esh!

Xenophile · 04-11-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Winchester

Thanks for the read, Xenophile. I don't want to give too much away, but Daniel Chan (maybe I should really change the names, but for the moment they'll suffice) is a mult-millionaire, so he's someone who wants the very best for his daughter, and Michelle fears that he won't give his blessing to their marriage. I don't want it to have anything to do with interracial couples, but that could be a side-reason if I prefer.

When you say American names, do you mean "Michelle" and "Daniel". I'm not too sure why they adopted them, but I'll think of something. What are the most common reasons?

What happened when the robber attacked? Ah, but if I tell you that, what would be the point in reading on?

Chan offers to pay the expenses as a pretence to something else. I'm not sure what yet. Until someone else pointed it out, I was unaware that I had used a Japanese name. Thank you for pointing that out.

I shall have to look at the maps - Google maps is pretty good for that, right? Any others?

As for Heroes, yes I do get it, but I'm only on the first season, so please don't spoil anything for me! I'm not familiar with George Takei - is he "Hiro"?

Again, thank you for taking the time to read it. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I hope to post the next part soon.

Thanks all.

Sam.

Asians living in America often take American names so people will be able to pronounce them. For younger people, sometimes it's because they want to fit in more with their adopted culture.

As for maps, Google Earth will show you satellite views of anywhere. But sites that have photos of the Appalachian landscape would be best for description.

Since you're only on the first season of Heroes, I can't tell you who George Takei plays yet. But look forward to finding out!

Xenophile · 04-11-2008, 10:14 PM

As for the next part, I think you've set up a good hunt-em-down thriller plot. The character has motivation and determination. The mystery about why Michelle was kidnapped makes me want to read more. So far with this you've done a really good job at leaving questions unanswered in each chapter, which is what you need in a page-turner. Keep it up!

Xeno

Katastrof · 04-11-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Winchester

Don't agree with you on The Bear and the Dragon, Kang. I think that's one of Clancy's weakest books. In my opinion, Clear and Present Danger or Without Remorse are his best books.

Sam.

Defiantly not, Sam.

I may not be a totally die hard fan, but from what I've read of his, I'd have to go with Red Storm Rising or The Hunt for Red October.

monkeyfaced · 04-12-2008, 05:58 AM

A confession: I have never read any of Tom Clancy's books. Certainly played some of his games on my various rigs though.

Asian Names: My daughter is half Taiwanese. She has her Mandarin Name and her English name. I speak Mandarin fluently and have never been able to effectively translate names from Chinese to English, or vice-versa, neither can any of my Taiwanese students. Even over here, most Taiwanese give themselves an arbitrary English name. It is not "legally" recognized but commonly done. The various Romanization systems adopted to translate Chinese to English are essentially unintelligible to any non-native speaker that has not studied Chinese formally. Your character, Daniel Chan's name ( Chan by the way indicates he is Cantonese, probably from Hong Kong or Macau.), is an overused Chinese surname.
You might find Chen, Wu, Liang, Guo, Wang more to your liking. And those are true Mandarin names. Obviously, these are just suggestions, hopefully the background information will be useful, especially if your Chan is going to feature in your book.
My nits.
‘I will do all I can, Mr Chan,’ Fines replied, taking his leave/ and left.

The shotgun was in disrepair /damaged

But you’ve never met anyone like me, have you?( Do people actually say this to themselves? I’ve seen it written but it seems too rhetorical. I get that he is a badass, show me, don’t have him tell me.)

but the foremost thing the Marines had taught him was survival. He would survive./ instilled was survival. ( I also like to use repitition, so I get you might want to use it to send those chills up the spine.)

The latter would involve serious training – weights, weapon, and fitness to name a few/ and more.

Apart from the above you kept me hooked, and I want to see how tough your boy is going to be. I like your writing, it does have a few, tiny canned moments, but then hell, whose doesn’t? The one thing I really look for in novels that involve violence, is that gritty feeling that comes with a true sense of the flow, and pacing of action.

Anyway, if you need any help on the Asian side of the details feel free to ask me. I’ll give you the facts, not what I think.
Thanks for the romping story
Justin

Sam Winchester · 04-12-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katastrof

Defiantly not, Sam.

I may not be a totally die hard fan, but from what I've read of his, I'd have to go with Red Storm Rising or The Hunt for Red October.

Gotta disagree there, Katastrof. The Hunt for Red October was good. Red Storm Rising was good in parts, boring for the most. Without Remorse is a thrill-a-minute page-turner. Clear and Present Danger is one of the smartest and well written books I've ever read, which explains why it was the bestselling novel of the 1980s. The next nearest one to those two is Patriot Games - and I'm not saying that because it was about a falsified Irish terror group.

Still, all of Clancy's stuff - up until after Executive Orders - is brilliant. His new stuff is quite boring at times, and filled with his biased point of view on every country bar his own.

Sam.

Katastrof · 04-12-2008, 09:41 AM

Well I've never read Without Remorse or Clear and Present Danger, so maybe you're right. I thought Red Storm Rising was so interesting because of the scale of it; you know like Russia invading everything. I guess I always wanted the book to made and since he made I thought it was really good.

Well, what I know for sure is that The Sum-of-All Fears has gotta be the most boring of all his books...

So this post isn't totally off topic:

Sam, I liked the new part of the story with Mr. Chan. It kinda adds a layer of mystic to him, like you don't really know what his true intentions are. I can't wait to read more.

Anyways two things:

1. I don't understand how Butler knows that Michelle was kidnapped. I mean he saw the robber's shotgun against her head; wouldn't he assume that she was dead? And I think him knowing that she is still alive right off the bat, kinda makes it unrealistic. Wouldn't it be better if the associate of Mr. Chan told him she were still alive, prompting him to get better quicker and try to get hold of Mr. Chan and then trying to track down the robber?

Meh, I'm just throwing it out there, so take it with a grain of salt.

2.

Quote:

That much was true. Unknown to all but a few, Butler had served as a Marine for three years, until he was dishonourably discharged. In that time, he’d mastered numerous weapons, learned how to Survive, Evade, Resist and Escape in SERE school, and learned the most important art of all – stealth. A long time had passed since those days, but Butler still remembered his training.

His injuries were severe, but the foremost thing the Marines had taught him was survival. He would survive. Rehabilitation would be painful, of course, but he’d do it. He’d push it a little further than required, though, the better to speed the process up. Then the hard part would start: finding the robber, tracking his location, and preparing mind and body to deal with him. The latter would involve serious training – weights, weapon, and fitness to name a few. Then came the mental preparation, but that had already started.

These two paragraphs seems unnecessary and make me think of Butler, not as a real character, but more of a Stony Man rip-off (If you've never read that book, its about some Rambo type rip-off written with half the story describing the guns he uses instead of who he really is.)

I also think it's way too much explaining and it kills the flow you have going. It just really hurts the character, IMO. Why not hint that he's a Marine, but don't explain what he does as a Marine. Instead, show it later on, maybe going in depth there.

Sam Winchester · 04-12-2008, 12:53 PM

Appreciate the input, Katastrof. Butler was told by the police that he was the only one found in the car when the responding officer came. If the robber was content enough to leave Butler's body there when he thought it was dead, why wouldn't he do the same with Michelle? So that left only one other explanation that's left is that she was kidnapped.

I guess the whole thing about explaining what he did in the Marines was hyperbole. I'll change it up in the rewrite.

Sam.