WriterDude

This won't take long, I promise.

The problem is I want my characters to speak normal young people in the late twenties / early thirties. One of them has a bad dream where she is lead down a corridor by two undead skeletons, and later say she "felt like I was walking the mile." In this example, should I a) let another character ask what she meant and then explain it, b) explain it in a footnote or c) assume the reader knows she's refering to the green mile and move on? If this had been the only time, it wouldn't have been a problem. But they refer to things quite often just like regular people, and the story even involve norse mythology. Can I assume the reader knows what a nightelf is? Can I mention, say, Balder or Heimdall without explaining who they are? What about ultima thule? (which is also the current title of the novel, btw). I don't want the reader to feel confused, but don't want the characters to talk like complete morons either. Thanks for your time.

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sam_kempton

Couldn't you have "felt like i was walking the green mile"?
I dont know much about norse mythology so i would say sink a bit of info in but find a balance (i dont know much baut i dont like being told i am an idiot balance).
I hate footnotes i think they draw attention away from the storyline.

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Ciavyn

I have no idea who Balder and Heimdall are, and I am 30. I would say avoid things aren't in common conversation. If you wouldn't over hear it at the mall food court, let it out.

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Mermaid on the breakwater

Slipping in pieces of information is often the most difficult thing to do but I think about it this way, I am a reader and many readers will be like me and have a reasonable level of knowledge. Therefore, you don't need to explain everything you reference. For your first draft I would advise you forget about things like that and just leave the explanations out, if there's one thing a reader hates it's the feeling that they're being patronised.

WriterDude

So I should explain as much as possible and as little as possible at once. *sigh* I could of course say "the green mile" instead of "the mile", but in normal conversation I tend to use the short form frequently. Mile instead of green mile, maiden instead of Iron Maiden, Elm Street instead of Nightmare on Elm Street and so on. I just think it makes sense if the characters in the novel speaks normally like this, instead of using the full name for everyhing they mention. It's the same reason why we say "don't" instead of "do not", "that's" instead of "that is" and so on. It's easier to say and write and makes the entire conversation more fluid. Besides, do you say "chips" or "potatochips"? The problem is when we start with too many short versions people don't know about. Guess I'll just have to compromise with myself. I can assume the reader knows some general things, but explain the more important things better.

And btw, Balder was Thor's brother, and his death is what starts ragnarok aka armageddon. Heimdall is the guardian of the Bifrost Bridge, or Rainbow Bridge, between Asgard and Middle-earth. (or between the gods and mortals).

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Erik Buchanan

Assume that the reader knows nothing. Chances are you will be right.

The problem then becomes how to get the information into your work without boring the reader to tears. It's a difficulty, but you can manage it.

"Being led to my execution" might work better. Or:

"I felt like I was walking the mile"
"What?"
"The mile. The Green mile. Stephen King? About a prisoner on death row? Oh, never mind."

It works as well as anything else.

As a seperate note, I have a personal bias against using footnotes unless you're trying to make what you're writing look like it was written by a scholarly type. They pull the reader away from the main text and drive of the a story, and they are often missed by those caught up in the action.


That, however, is a personal bias.

TimK

Actually, what I would do is to ask what would your character say? Would she say simply "mile"? Because both she and her interlocutor get the allusion? Or would she clarify: "green mile"?

Keep in mind that even if the reader doesn't get what "walking the mile" means, they'll understand from the context that it's a terrifying experience. Note that whole characters have been made (and been made memorable) by having them spout pop-culture references, half of which the audience doesn't get.

-TimK

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WriterDude

My character would say "mile", although I could perhaps change it to "Like I was walking towards my execution." or "Like I was on death row". Something like that. Maybe "I felt I was walking the mile, like on death row." That should clearlify things a bit. The problem is this is just an example. I have lot of references like that, simply because it feels natural to speak like that. There are demonic dogs involved, and one of the character say "Cujo was just a regular dog." Should I mention who Cujo is? Things like that makes sense to me, but how much does the reader know? How much does the reader want to know? Maybe I could assume the reader knows something and don't explain the unimportant parts. Is the book ruined if you don't know who Cujo is, or what the (green) mile means? I don't think so. Besides, as you said, she felt terrified in her dream, so the mile isn't something nice. Who cares what it means exactly? Besides, she was lead by two skeletons, which should be a strong hint. Undeads are hardly ever nice, and these were leading her up the corridor like they were guards or something.

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Susie's Mom

Erik's idea is good. Use your character's conversation to work in information.

"It felt like I was walking the mile."

"Mile? The hallway was a mile long?"

"No, not the . . . The mile. You know? Stephen King's mile."

His face remained blank.

"The Green Mile. The book. When they . . ." She stopped and shook her head. "Never mind. Just never mind."

My only question about this would be plagiarism. Be very careful that nothing you say actually quotes anything in King's book.

The elf thing; you might try to work in some description inside action. If I read your planned story, I would have no idea what you were talking about because I don't read science fiction. This is only a suggestion, but have you tried something like:

Gambolfini (sorry) peered over the edge of the parapet, his abnormally large eyes glazed. Impatiently, he pushed his stringy gray hair out of his eyes.

"There," he said to his companion, "three dead, right there. This was a good battle."

Armanta shrugged. "Last weeks' was better."

Gembolfini lunged at him, wrapping his long-boned fingers around his neck, pressing his talon-like nails into his flesh.

"You dare to question my skills in battle?"

That's rough, but you get the idea. Working in bits of description helps a lot when the reader is someone like me who doesn't have a clue.

lin

There is no need to explain an expresion like that.
People will see what it is. It's not required that they have heard it before.

The advice to assume you have to explain everything to readers is VERY bad, amateur advice. Far worse to bog down in simple-minded explanation that bores and even insults the reader than to just cruise on by.

Even if they don't get it, it doesn't matter. You are in control and they either trust you, or they won't have read that far.

It's very common for good writers to use words that aren't defined. Something like this is minor compared to William Gibson dropping "chilango" into a book, or Burroughs talking about spla or candiru or whatever and maybe explaining them later or maybe not.

This whole impulse to make everything clear to an ignorant audience leads to mediocrity and amateurish writing. It's tantamount to the lamentable tendancy of people to translate foreign phrases. "Buenos dias" he said (Good morning). That is laughable...but you see it. Better writers just toss in foreign phrases without apology.

Don't worry about this one AT ALL. It's very minor compared to more major issues that don't need clumsy explanation, either.

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Mermaid on the breakwater

It's true that those authors explained things but they were writing in the fantasy genre where they created their own world and had to describe things to make them associable with the world the rest of us live in.

Lin is right, again. I said it before, don't patronise your reader by explaining commonly accepted phrases.

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Mermaid on the breakwater

There is a difference though. In each case you've pointed out, they're explaining something more than just a commonly accepted phrase.

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Mermaid on the breakwater

Nop, he just deals with the common phrase in this one. He doesn't say explanation of everything is bad just the advice to explain anything and everything.

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Mermaid on the breakwater

Knee-jerk reactions are never very good, sir. I have thought for myself, I posted the same sentiments as Lin in a post prior to his.

He said, "To explain everything" Why on earth should you have to explain everything in your writing, it spoils impact, it ruins what would otherwise be good writing and patronises a reader. Take a good look and you'll see that we're right and you're wrong. In this case, it's as black and white as that.

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Mermaid on the breakwater

I may well be self absorbed, and Lin an old coot, but we're right on this one. If you want to throw insults, go ahead, it just reaffirms the point that we're right.

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