Just a quick grammar question - Writers Forum

CFuller · 09-24-2007, 11:37 PM

It's been a while since I last had an English grammar class, and I have since learned Chinese grammar, so I occasionally have a brain fart or two.

Would one say, " there was a handful of people" or "there were a handful of people"?

I am reasonably sure it is the former, but my instinct has been known to mislead me.

That's all. Thanks.

KaylyRed · 09-24-2007, 11:47 PM

I could be wrong about this, and I hope someone will correct me if I am, but my thought would be:

There was a handful of people.

My rationale:

"Was" refers to "handful," which is a singular noun. "Of people" is a prepositional phrase and doesn't modify the verb. In essence, you could leave off the propositional phrase and leave it as "There was a handful" and it would be correct.

Of course, "there was" isn't the best way to start a sentence, anyhow. Why not just eliminate the problem entirely by saying something like: "A handful of people arrived," or "A handful of people showed up?" If you really must use a "to be" verb, though..."A handful of people were there."

CFuller · 09-24-2007, 11:52 PM

Thank you, that's exactly what I thought, and to hear it put that way, I do recall that anything after the preposition doesn't count.

Also, the phrase itself is in the middle of a sentence, I just shortened it somewhat for the sake of the blog.

Thanks again!

The Backward OX · 09-25-2007, 02:08 AM

I've long forgotten all my grammar classes, so tell me - what's wrong with using the verb "to be"?

CFuller · 09-25-2007, 02:17 AM

I think she was just referring to the generally accepted idea that "to be" verbs are much less interesting to read in a sentence than an action verb of some kind - not to any actual grammar issues.

mammamaia · 09-25-2007, 08:01 PM

...even in the middle of a sentence, 'there was a handful of people' is poor writing... better would be, 'a handful of people were'.. in that case, 'were' referring to the people, not a handful...

...unless you are writing something like, 'there was just a handful of people at the exhibit that night' or whatever... 'just' would make it work, where the plain 'there was a' doesn't really...

CFuller · 09-25-2007, 08:53 PM

For the record, the sentence is,

"The roof itself appeared deserted, which struck Li as odd, since there was typically a handful of the President’s security detail guarding the roof anytime the President was in a building."

The alternative would be,

"The roof itself appeared deserted, which struck Li as odd, since a handful of the President’s security detail was typically guarding the roof anytime the President was in a building."

I personally don't see how it makes much of a difference in this context, but maybe that's personal opinion.

Jestor · 09-26-2007, 08:14 AM

FWIW, the second sentence strikes me as the better one, because the emphasis is handful rather than there.

Taxiday · 09-27-2007, 07:14 PM

"The roof itself appeared deserted, which struck Li as odd, since a handful of the President’s security detail was typically guarding the roof anytime the President was in a building."

Okay, my nicke's worth ...

The deserted roof struck Li as odd as the President was in the building and his security detail should be guarding it.

mammamaia · 09-28-2007, 02:49 AM

good point, given the larger context of that sentence excerpt... and fyi, 'president' isn't capitalized unless his name accompanies it... just as you'd say 'the king was not on his throne' or 'the mayor left the podium'...

Ciavyn · 09-28-2007, 08:59 AM

But actually, you do capitalize the title "President" when referring specifically to him, regardless of whether or not you include his name. It is his title. When referring to presidents in general, or as a group, then you would not. The same way if you were addressing a judge, you would say, "Excuse me, Judge, that is not true," or "Excuse me, Judge Smith, that is not true," vs "I told the judge that was not true."

IrishLad · 09-28-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

... even in the middle of a sentence, 'there was a handful of people' is poor writing... better would be, 'a handful of people were'.. in that case, 'were' referring to the people, not a handful...

This is very good advice.

Cheers

Non Serviam · 09-28-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciavyn

But actually, you do capitalize the title "President" when referring specifically to him, regardless of whether or not you include his name. It is his title.

I wouldn't capitalise "president"--although I can imagine Americans might.

mammamaia · 09-28-2007, 05:40 PM

i'm american, and i wouldn't, either...

CFuller · 09-28-2007, 09:47 PM

Now that I think about it, I think the only time "president" is capitalized is when saying "Mr. President" or "President Bush". Seems to me that "the president" would be uncapitalized in any other context, except maybe "the President of the United States" or "the President of the Republic of China". Any thoughts on the last two?