give me your thoughts - Page 2 - Writers Forum

archer88iv · 05-04-2007, 04:44 AM

I can't believe someone was kind enough to go to the trouble of rewriting your paragraph to begin with. Furthermore, I can't believe that you complained that their version needed more "meat." As if your version has any "meat" at all!

You want my "initial thoughts"? You've successfully written a paragraph filled with nothing. Congratulations. Now delete it and turn in the paper. I can proudly comply with your request not to suggest ideas for improvement because the thing simply can't be improved. It just needs to be gone.

Next time you start to convolute something because you feel 'challenge' will keep the reader interested, consider that many people prefer the common courtesy shown by a writer who chooses not to waste his audience's time.

---

Edit:
As soon as I posted this I thought, "Dear God, I've been successfully baited by a troll!" I haven't deleted my post on the off chance that I'm wrong.

Derrick · 05-04-2007, 06:21 PM

americanwriter: I know what you mean!! That contest is preposterous, but the goal is so interesting! Its fun to go into a writing EXPECTING greatness, then getting derailed because the prose is horrible, but brilliantly craptastic enough to maintain the readers interest. Dissonance is the best word I can use to describe my writing, because it does makes sense when you give it time, and once you do "get it", you realize that it was basically vague. I try to have fun with that, since it gets extremely boring to find deep meaning in everything. If you really think about it, why bother hunting endlessly for passionate sonnets that have meaning to them? Sure, they might be insightful, but how can you relate that to your own experiences? THAT'S why I write for me, because nobody has gone through the same thing I have, and it would be pointless writing something that nobody can truly sympathize with. They can mold it, and shape it into a format that is similar to something they've gone through, but it will ultimately end up being just another version of the truth.

Azmakna · 05-04-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derrick

tigerstyle: So now its my vocab and not my ideas that you're worried about? This is was not a demonstration of my vocabulary intelligence by any means. In fact, the prose that you just saw was my writing style in general, but its not like I had a thesaurus on hand as I was writing. The words just come to mind without hard thinking, and personally this is nothing compared to the onslaughts I usually write. I would say my intensity with word play here is mediocre of my full potential, so consider yourself lucky that your eyes did not pop out from complex prose. Have you ever heard of "purple prose"? That's exactly,.......EXACTLY the way I write. It means that the words themselves seem to have much more emphasis and execution than the subject matter itself. Its almost as if the subject doesn't even matter.....which is what you were basically saying in your critique, correct? Well, consider me a purple prose writer.........

chill fella... relax a little... take the weight off your chip. this is what it is like to be a writer. not even the greatest writers of all time avoided the critic. as some have already pointed out: you cannot improve without taking ALL critiques seriously, you can only stymie your progress (l love the word stymie, but perhaps 'hinder' would have been simpler and to the point... eh?) fella you are delusional! i have met many 18 year old writers with a bigger vocabulary than yours but their work avoids 'purple prose' an acronym for 'overwriting'

Derrick · 05-04-2007, 11:05 PM

Azmakna: Was I not clear enough with what I said? I said that my intention was to originally write "purple" because the idea of fragmented writing has always been interesting to me. The world is full of different writers, purple prose people alike, and I place myself in that category because its the most satisfying. You think I'm delusional because I like to write a certain way? I think that is a sign of ignorance, because you could have easily accepted it for what it was, or just bothered not to post and go on with your usual routine. Purple prose, I love it, you hate it, I'm sorry that the world isn't bundled up in a reader friendly package for you to get happy about. Does that make you feel any better? I didn't think so either.....

silverfoxgirl · 05-05-2007, 08:27 AM

silverfoxgirl · 05-05-2007, 08:27 AM

Oh, shut up! I'm young too, younger than you I gaurentee, and I don't whine all day because some one doesn't like my writing. Do you know how much I would like to get all this advice for my stories?!

Mike · 05-05-2007, 09:17 AM

I haven't read any of the comment-not-critiques, mainly because it's already dissolved down into squabbling. I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derrick

We've become these abysmal vessels, evident of who we are, and at the same time unsure of what we deserve.

I strongly, strongly disagree. I think it's quite the opposite. And i'm not that misanthropic.

Derrick · 05-05-2007, 03:42 PM

Mike: That line was referring to the past's society. It was my vision, or opinion on what people were like during the depression's time. It had nothing to do with you and I in the present.

silverfoxgirl: Listen. You seek constructive opinions, I seek satisfaction in my own work without if the opinions are valid or not. Why post anyway you ask? Because I can. You, like a lot of people on this board, are trying too hard to uncover my motives, and I'm telling you that you will fail every time you try to rationalize this. Can I ask you something? Why seek meaning in everything......why not let things be?

speakerphone2 · 05-05-2007, 03:45 PM

So darn wordy, and really really really (once more) really off-topic.

Forget Government class, consider philosophy.

Azmakna · 05-05-2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derrick

Azmakna: Was I not clear enough with what I said? I said that my intention was to originally write "purple" because the idea of fragmented writing has always been interesting to me. The world is full of different writers, purple prose people alike, and I place myself in that category because its the most satisfying. You think I'm delusional because I like to write a certain way? I think that is a sign of ignorance, because you could have easily accepted it for what it was, or just bothered not to post and go on with your usual routine. Purple prose, I love it, you hate it, I'm sorry that the world isn't bundled up in a reader friendly package for you to get happy about. Does that make you feel any better? I didn't think so either.....

okay... so what you need to do now is rewrite that piece again, without the purple prose, because i for one don't think you can do it

reader friendly lol... really think about that

i'll give you what you came here for: it was brilliant

Derrick · 05-05-2007, 05:06 PM

speakerphone2: Philosophy? Um.....I've thought of that, but I'm not sure if I could live up to that amount of thinking. Sometimes, thinking will get you nowhere, yet some of the best philosophers do just that. There will be a time when you will have to put action to what you think about on a daily basis, or deeply. Also, I said how my paper didn't get info technical until the paragraph right after that.

Azmanka: You don't believe I can? I can actually write it "on subject", but I choose not to because I want to give the reader some foreshadowing, or warning about how depressing that time in history was. Also, I know you like reader friendly stuff because of the strong opposition you have to this particular piece. Why not have a challenge once in a while? Why not read something that requires more than reading to get the full scope? Lastly, I did not come here for praise, I came here simply to gather some thoughts. Based on the opinions so far, mostly everyone hates my stuff. Isn't that a bitch? Well, I guess this isn't a place for writers of my kind, its full of Tolkiens right?

Mike · 05-06-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

I want to give the reader some foreshadowing, or warning about how depressing that time in history was

It's called the Great Depression for some reason... I think we can figure out that it was greatly depressing. How can you warn someone about something that already has happened? "Look out! The 1920s will get you!" As well, you can't foreshadow the past.

I still disagree about what I posted previously. You do not understand that time period anymore than you understand this one. It's pretty evident in your writing.

You cannot be a philosopher. It's not the amount of thinking required as much as it is the various perspectives you must consider. It seems you post here to brag about how good a writer you are and, look at how great your paragraphs are for your school papers! With this kind of mentality, you will only remember how to tie your shoelaces and vaguely wonder why they haven't devolved into velcro: your childhood acquaintence.

As you replied to Azmanka, you said that "I can actually write "on subject", but I choose not to." I really don't think you can. There are ways you can write on subject and still retain independence in essay. That is part of the actual challenge. You are taking the easy way out by dithering in viscosity.

You say that "everyone hates my stuff." No. Myself, I think it's mediocre at best. I don't think you want anyone to like you're stuff because it wouldn't validate why you write it in the first place. It seems you do not write it to interpret or convey information to another reader; you write it for identity. If you write something no one understands or is completely infatuated with, it's their problem because they don't understand your vision. While this serves the ego nicely, protecting you in some kind of Uniqueness Bubble, it will not make you a better writer.

Xion Night · 05-06-2007, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derrick

Also, I know you like reader friendly stuff because of the strong opposition you have to this particular piece.

LMFAO
Dude, you have no idea how hilarious that sounds.

We like "reader friendly" stuff because WE ARE READERS.

Doy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derrick

Lastly, I did not come here for praise, I came here simply to gather some thoughts. Based on the opinions so far, mostly everyone hates my stuff.

You got thoughts. Many of them. The fact that people hate your stuff, as you so prettily put it, isn't their fault...

Quote:

Isn't that a bitch? Well, I guess this isn't a place for writers of my kind, its full of Tolkiens right?

Hehehe. By "writers of your kind" do you mean the kind that want to stay at their current level of skill forever "by choice" ?

Look, man. You're getting alot of good comments. You say you write like you do because of stylistic choice, but have you ever considered the fact that maybe, just maybe, your "style" needs revising?
I don't know what purple prose is - never heard of it - but from the attitude you pour forth right now (not your writing itself, mind you, but your attitude), I don't want to find out any more about it.

The challenge shouldn't be on the reader to read, but on the writer to write well. Reading all these posts should clue you in onto which one of you is failing.

And, in case you care, this is coming from a teen as well, and although people tell me every day how great of a writer I am, I have no illusions about how badly I suck.

...

But really, you can just ignore everything I just said. I just wanted to point out how ridiculous that first quote sounds when you think about it...

mammamaia · 05-06-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

The challenge shouldn't be on the reader to read, but on the writer to write well.

brilliantly put!... i can ditto that... m

ChrisF · 05-06-2007, 06:18 PM

OK Derrick, I've read through the thread, and whilst I agree with a lot of what has been said, I'm going to try to give you some initial thoughts that you can use. I won't suggest specific changes to your writing, since that doesn't appear to be what you want.

Firstly, I have some experience with academic writing, and whilst I accept that you have referred to subject matter in the sections of the essay which you have not posted, I'd like to point out that my lecturers would not have wanted to mark an essay with that introduction. If you examine academic textbooks, you will note that they tend toward a virtually indistinguishable academic "style". Wikipedia is a good example of this. Popular, well edited articles, will be written in very much the same way as other popular, well edited articles (compared to articles edited by fewer writers). This would suggest that the grail for student essay writing is a style that conveys a cogent argument, is well referenced, and which emulates the academic method of sentence construction.

Having got that bit of advice out of the way, I'm going to now assume that the lecturer you are writing the essay for is prepared to accept the essay in its present form. My initial thoughts are that the metaphors you use are wordy and confusing. I'm not left feeling satisfied as I read your work... I don't want to move to the next line, because I don't feel that I'm learning anything. I don't think this is because I'm stupid, but rather that it's because the metaphors that you've used could be applied to a great range of subjects, and it traps the reader in hyperbole.

From your responses, it seems that this is your intention. You want to be vague, and you intend to elicit an emotion response whilst enabling the reader to independently attribute your vague constructions to the subject matter (they are informed by the title). I think the problem may be that the constructions are so vague, that the reader is too busy trying to work out if they make sense, and they then can't be bothered to attribute it back to the subject. Furthermore, use of such complicated imagery means that the writing becomes very subjective. I would suggest that this may frustrate readers who do not agree with your metaphors, and rather than encourage them to read on further, will just make them lose interest.

I hope that helps. I know that I haven't been particularly encouraging of your writing, but you don't seem to mind criticism, and I was just speaking my mind. I've always taken the attitude that whilst it may seem like a prostitution of your creative abilities, an essay is there to give the lecturer what he/she wants. It's not there to satisfy your own writing nous, and if you want to do that, you should write fiction.