Are You An Unintentional Plagiarist? - Page 7 - Writers Forum

desm · 03-23-2008, 12:49 PM

Well, there are six billion people out there, some of them must share the same name, surely. I know someone that used her real name as a poet, only to discover there's a more famous poet who shares her name

I haven't read all of this thread - and so I suspect it's been said already. But I've read some, especially the beginning.
Copying and claiming credit where it isn't due, is bad. Plagiarism in that sense is bad. But it seems to me, that you've realised plagerism is bad, very bad. And then just gone and looked it up, only to realise it's more broad than you thought it was. And then because plagiarism is bad, you've immediately condemned the new bits.
(That may not be the actual version of events, but you can appreciate the 'arbitrary condemnation' part of it)
Stealing specific ideas is bad, but like sam said with clancy, calls of "plagiarism" can go to far. Some people seem to take plagiarism far too far. And, unintentional plagiarists aren't bad people, it was unintentional after all.
This may have been dealt with on page 4, but I didn't read it.

kingsmate20 · 04-28-2008, 10:10 PM

Very interesting thread. I've often wondered about stuff like this. It's kind of scary to have my stuff all over the internet now though. Any one can take it, change it up a bit, and say that it's theirs.

Red_Venus · 05-16-2008, 06:57 PM

Reminds me of a Stephen King short story I read in "Twelve Past Midnight"... and Paoli was 15 when he wrote Eragon but 17 when it was first published. He was in a homeschool group with my brothers.

PinkFloydian21 · 06-20-2008, 07:13 AM

On a lighter note, if you are spoofing something, is it still plagiarism? If I write "Star Battle Episode 4: A Blue Soap," would it be considered stealing?

I would think no, since there are COUNTLESS spoofs, but would someone be wrong for suing over copyright infringement?

lin · 06-20-2008, 10:21 AM

Parody is no plagiarism.

OtherWorlds · 07-18-2008, 12:06 PM

I think what Valeca is talking about in the opening post is called "fan fiction", and while some people find it fun to write and even to post on writer's forums, most authors expressly forbid any fan fiction being centered around there work, even if it's just all in good fun.

Myself, I don't really understand the urge to play around with other people's characters and worlds when you could be creating your own. It's much more rewarding because then you can say "this work is mine". Plus, you can't publish fan fiction, so I've never really felt tempted to mess with it.

Walkio · 07-18-2008, 01:00 PM

Yeah, I read somewhere that if you get a book published you can't do so under the name of Jeffery Archer (say) even if it is your real name because you'd be accused of trying to trick readers into thinking you were really a best selling author.

However, whether something is plagerised or not is quite subjective: how many fantasy stories involve magic, beautiful princesses and the hunt for an object of power, for instance? What does 'closely immitate' actually mean? I was once told that basically every story ever written falls under one of only seven plot outlines (called things like The Journey and The Quest). Who doesn't borrow ideas from other authors? If you don't, you should! When Philip Pullman was asked where he got his ideas from he said, 'I steal them.' But when does inspiration turn into plagerism?

lin · 07-18-2008, 01:47 PM

Not all that subjective. Concepts that stories "involve" aren't protected. That should be clear by now. It's the WRITING than can be plagiarized...NOT ideas, concepts, settings, etc. Is that clear now?

Jeez

BTW, scan any catalog of books and authors and you will find authors with the same name. You can use your own name of course.
Who starts these things?

Cran · 07-18-2008, 05:48 PM

plagiarism is the act of presenting another's work as one's own;
it is a form of breach of copyright.

ideas are not subject to copyright; therefore cannot be plagiarised.

parody is allowed under the fair use (fair dealing) provisions; therefore is not plagiarism.

you will note, however, that many parodies (spoofs, etc) do make reference to the source (often as "with apologies to ..." etc) - this is a courtesy in the case of parodies, but a common key to all other fair use (fair dealing) ...

plagiarism is a deliberate act - unintentional plagiarism may arise when someone exercises the fair use provisions (quotes or copies extracts, etc) but neglects to include a proper reference to the source material.

and you own the copyright to your own birth name - a legal challenge can only arise if you change your name for commercial purposes ...

lin · 07-18-2008, 06:07 PM

Exactly

I would question this a tiny bit:

Quote:

plagiarism is a deliberate act -

There is such a thing as "subconscious plagiarism" The classic case was George Harrison being sued because his "My Sweet Lord" used the exact melody of "He's So Fine".
The judges ruled that it was plagiarism, but were convinced that it was not a conscioius or deliberate act, merely somebody blurring their childhood influences. An amicable settlement was reached.

Cran · 07-19-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lin

Exactly

There is such a thing as "subconscious plagiarism" The classic case was George Harrison being sued because his "My Sweet Lord" used the exact melody of "He's So Fine".
The judges ruled that it was plagiarism, but were convinced that it was not a conscioius or deliberate act, merely somebody blurring their childhood influences. An amicable settlement was reached.

Personally, I think George got a bum rap - I've listened to both, and they are no more alike than hundreds of other songs I've heard over the years ...

but, yes lin - I'd count subconscious plagiarism as unintended plagiarism ...
as far as such things can exist - which is the other reason it was a bum rap; there is a legal need to establish intent (or motive), in most jurisdictions "beyond a reasonable doubt", which legally defines plagiarism as a deliberate act ...

lin · 07-19-2008, 09:53 PM

Well, deliberation and premeditation are pretty tricky legally.
The idea that Harrison's lift was unconscious is more a judge's comment than legal finding, I guess.

By the way, those songs have like EXACTLY the same melody... I've never heard anybody express any question whatsoever of the influence.

This very definitely happens and a lot of musicians and songwriters know about it. Personally, I wrote a lot of songs that worked around a sort of musical theme that I felt was very deep and personal.
Then one day I walked into a cafe and heard Linda Rondstadt singing "Blue Bayou" and blew my mind. THAT'S MY SONG!!!!!!

The Roy Orbison song that was all over the radio when I was in like third grade (about the same timing as for Orbison). It happens. And people might realize you didn't mean to do it, but the original writer still has something coming.

You don't see this as much in writing, I think. You don't see somebody turning in an MS with passages identical to a Stephen King novel, then claim they were subconscious.

I don't think intent counts on plagiarism. It's pretty much a lay-down. There's your stuff, there's the other stuff.

OtherWorlds · 07-22-2008, 07:01 PM

I recently read an article about a famous romance author who stole whole passages out of another writer's book and slipped them into her own. When she got caught, she claimed she had a mental illness and had no idea what she was doing at the time. Maybe Harrison should have been wise enough to make that plea.

STAYCALM49 · 08-16-2008, 01:36 PM

I find this thread very interesting as there seems to be confusion over plagiarism, influence and beach of copyright.

Quentin Tarrantino took a number of Hong Kong movies and rewrote the screenplays for the Western market. He claims he was 'strongly influenced' by Hong Kong cinema. Sergio Leone, a big fan of Kurosawa rewrote some of his movies for the Western Cinema and claimed to be 'influenced'. JK Rowling rumour has it, that she had the idea for the 7 novel Harry Potter having seen a short story about a boy magician with the same name.

Where does plagiarism end and influence begin? With the replication of the work that's where. Ideas are unownable. If you see an idea and use it yourself you are not stealing work, that is a fact. Ideas are unproprietry, they are in the air hanging for anyone and everyone to grab at. What IS proprietry is the expression of that idea, and the actual media it is expressed in.

Simple rule, if you pass of a piece of work that has been produced by someone else, eg: My love is like a red red rose', that is plagiarism. If instead, you produce the line 'a red red rose is like the love I have for you' then that is not. It is clear, that idea of comparing love to a red rose was originally thought up by Burns, but that is just an idea and therefore not plagiarism.

There is nothing wrong with being influenced by other peoples ideas, and those ideas giving birth to your own expressions. That is how society and the arts develops. Very few ideas are born from nothing but dreams.

cherub09 · 08-16-2008, 09:51 PM

My recent short included a few quotations from Alcoholic's Anonymous literature and one quotation of a line from a Bonnie Raitt song (with credit given.) How does this kind of stuff rank with copyright/plagiarism? VK