damien_frosst

Just a quick gripe. Nova Scotia is attached to the mainland. It's not an island, it's (at worst) a very big pennisula. Newfoundland is an island, PEI is an island. Cape Breton (a part of Nova Scotia) is an island.

Also, I thought the Vikings visited Newfoundland.

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Damien

In my world, there are no heroes, only really polite villians.

gohn67

I just read chapter 1 part 3.

The only thing I can say is that I would like to see the dialogue expanded and more indepth. It is a good way to show character. And it interests me to hear some monster pirate talk. I really want to experience what they have to say, I was really into the dialogue part, but it ended so fast. I want to feel their happiness some more through the dialogue. Since this is a novel I think, I think you go for it. THough I know you don't like too much dialogue though.
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Chapter2
I like Chapter 2 so far. I guess becuase I really like dialogue and you did a great job of it. Its getting really interesting now.

I think you should take out the word Sadly. It doesnt fit. He says "We need black Powder" with an exlamation mark. That doesnt seem sad to me. Also adverbs after tags are pretty weak. So try to avoid them if possible.

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The Frowning Dog Blog

Talia_Brie

I noticed this and thought I'd comment straight away so I don't forget:

Any food kept in bags is going to be eaten by rats within about three days at sea. You can keepo food in bags if you want, but you'll need a supernatural way of keeping the rats and cockroaches off the ship if you do.

Around the time you are setting this all food was kept in barrels (at least to my knowledge. I've been doing some research on that for a 'ship' story of my own).

An interesting Random Note: On the VOC ships (Dutch East India Company) the food barrels and the hull were both made of oak. During the course of the voyage the rats would learn that chewing through oak got to food, so they would often chew through the hull.

Another interesting Random Note: Cockroaches leave an aftertaste of sausages in food, and weavils are just bitter. Maggots are the worst because they're cold.

That makes the turn of the century. Check whether it was called Holland then. I doubt it. It might be better to use the more generic Netherlands, or just Dutch. The Netherlands were a conglomerate of independant states at that time I believe (conglomerate is the wrong word, I know, but you get the idea).

I'll go back to reading now

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Talia_Brie

I may have a bias, because I prefer third person, but I believe this would be more exciting and an easier read if it wasn't 1st person.

We are being told everything, and that's boring for me. I would rather you showed me things happening and let me form some of my own opinions. I feel like I'm drudging through this, like dragging my feet through mud.

The problem I think is that there doesn't seem to be any emotion from the narrator. 1st person is a good tool for exploring internal emotions, but you're not doing that here. It has the feeling of a ship's journal entry, and it just hasn't captured my attention at all.

I also feel that you're almost focusing on the drudgery of ship life. You spend pages and pages going through the building of the ship, and moving the cargo around etc. Then when the exciting stuff arrives, the first battle, it's over in a couple of lines and none of the crew put up a fight.

There needs to be more adventure, and earlier, at least from my opinion.

And dialogue? I love dialogue, it's like air to me. I have to have it. There is almost none here, and what there is doesn't strike the right historical tone to me. BUt that could well be a later edit issue. Get the conversations out and give the character their voices later. I can live with that.

That all being said, and the factual suggestions I've made here and on the other thread, this does have the feeling of a strong idea. Everyone loves Pirates, there's no doubt about that. I like the idea of the sentient ship, Legend, and the shape changers. I like your theory about monsters vs humans (from the other thread), and I like the idea of a horror story about pirates.

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horrorcrafter

wow, Talia, thanks.
I don't think I'll ever eat roaches again.
Conversations are not really relevant to the horror aspect. I've done quite a bit of research on this piece, and I think everything is plausible. But I really respect your opinions on this work, and would be glad to continue any dialogue about ship's construction, navigation, or early american history with you if you have any interest in those things. I do think we have very different perspectives on writing, though, but I'll respect your style of writing if you respect mine. Cheers
Horrorcrafter.

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Canadian Lynx are beautiful sensitive creatures which are very good mothers and they make a wide variety of sounds such as meows, purrs, cough-barks, growls, and screams like a woman. She is the next mammal to become extinct in North America largely because we waste so much paper. Please reduce, reuse, and recycle. Cheers, Horrorcrafter

horrorcrafter

chapter two, part two

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Canadian Lynx are beautiful sensitive creatures which are very good mothers and they make a wide variety of sounds such as meows, purrs, cough-barks, growls, and screams like a woman. She is the next mammal to become extinct in North America largely because we waste so much paper. Please reduce, reuse, and recycle. Cheers, Horrorcrafter

gohn67

I'm not sure how to interpret this sentence.

What is a jolly boat?
I always read it as a boat that is jolly.

Nice touch with the spanish.

You crossed over to someone else's POV here.

One question - I don't understand why they ask for Gray POwder, as if they know its on the island. BUt how I interpreted it is that they stumbled upon the island on accident. They seemed to know exactly what they wanted. Hope that makes sense. Maybe you wrote something that explained this in a previous section and I forgot.

Is this going to be a NOvel?
If so I think you can expand this section 2 of chapter 2 and make it its own chapter. I kind of want to get more indepth with the people of this island and see more of how these people live. cuase these people are good humans in the eyes of the monsters. Just try to describe how they spent there time on the island in more detail.

Other than that this chapter is ok, mainly becuase it seems like a transitional section, since the only important thing is they got hte powder.

I can't wait for the real horror.

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The Frowning Dog Blog

Wookie

That was fun. I really enjoyed reading about your pirates Horror, and I hope that their story continues. The writing was excellent in my opinion, although I wasn't sure about some of the capitalization in your work.

My suggestions are more like questions so I will just list them.

Part I

Since I live in VA the part about "rugged coast" made me pause. Were you going for jagged?

One of your pirates "...could lay a cannon better than anyone on Earth." Is the meaning of "lay" to cast, as in similar to forging?

I loved the process of buidling the ship. You did a great job with a difficult task. The imagery is very well done, I wish that I could have been there to watch them work. I have a few questions that really don't have to be answered by the story, but they were thoughts that I had while reading that section.

Smelting ore? The pirates had to process the ore somehow didn't they?
Making tools and fastners?
I agree that dry oak is great when you need straight beams/decking. Wouldn't the ribs of the ship have been made from "wet" oak? possibly soaked for days submerged in the river and forced into shape in some kind of jig?

I don't really know how hemp becomes thread or cloth or rope, I just assume there is some kind of spooling/weaving process involved.

I liked the nautical terms that I didn't really understand. I have no idea what "raking the masts" means. It does make me want to learn more about sailing.

Part II

The place names in the beginning confused me. Did the story move from VA to somewhere near NY or Massachusettes? Aren't those locations up there?

Legend went from having 8 sails in part I to 6 sails in part II.

This is one concerning my sailing ignorance, does "Rudder balanced perfectly in between her two masts." imply the ship is center-steered? The physical location of the rudder at the center of the ship? (under the keel ofcourse)

I thought the reordering of the hold was clever (I hope that I understood it). The crew moved the heavier cargo forward in the hold so that the ship could get more bite?

Part III

I liked the pursuit of the caravel, but not what happened after they caught it. It was too easy for my liking. Since it was so easy I was hoping you would have gone into more depth on the torturing.

Great job Horror. I always think that I am overcritical, especially when it comes to the details and sprockets. Hope that this helps.

horrorcrafter

Now, THATS what I call a good job of critiquing! You didn't get bogged down with the little mistakes, but instead you made comments and asked questions which pertain to the story's plot. Thank you, uh.. Mr. Wookie. You are also very intelligent on technical and geographical details... you were the first one to pick up on the only issues which were less plausible than others. And when you said you want to learn more about sailing, I really felt like I did my job. YOU are exactly the kind of person I was writing for. To answer some of the questions... oak is steamed to make it flexible...simple process... same with melting ore...not a big problem if you know how... all you need is a metal container to hold the ore The biggest sticking point, of course, is how they made the TOOLS used to cut the metal (and wood)

But, of course, they could have brought some old tools with them. Don't you think some of the beaches in Va could be considered rugged? Rugged and jagged are almost the same. Lay a cannon = aiming the cannon. Oh, Gohn, a jolly boat is a certain kind of little wooden boat carried by larger ship. All the items Wookie guessed about, you were right each time. Soon Legend will have no square sails. Don't worry, much more torture and killing will follow, but only for evil settlers, not good ones. Wookie you must be some kind of mechanical expert. Thanks for reading this. take care, horrorcrafter

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Canadian Lynx are beautiful sensitive creatures which are very good mothers and they make a wide variety of sounds such as meows, purrs, cough-barks, growls, and screams like a woman. She is the next mammal to become extinct in North America largely because we waste so much paper. Please reduce, reuse, and recycle. Cheers, Horrorcrafter

Talia_Brie

That's good to know, and somehow a little disturbing at the same time.

If your research is thorough, then that's excellent, because mine (in terms of this topic) isn't. European ship-life in the late 1500s early 1600s is what I researched. Not pirates, not ship building, not American history.

I do, however, think dialogue and conversations is always important, because it is such a powerful tool in character development. And in horror, my belief is that it works best when you care for the characters. Although, that being said I don't think the pirates are going to be the point of the horror, more the source. I could be wrong.

We'll get into a discussion on horror if you like. I did my honours thesis on it. But not here. I might start another thread.

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horrorcrafter

Within

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Canadian Lynx are beautiful sensitive creatures which are very good mothers and they make a wide variety of sounds such as meows, purrs, cough-barks, growls, and screams like a woman. She is the next mammal to become extinct in North America largely because we waste so much paper. Please reduce, reuse, and recycle. Cheers, Horrorcrafter

badwriter1000

Horrorcrafter. like I said in the fiction section. I'm really enjoying this. I won't critique it because I'm enjoying this way too much to try to take it apart. just know that I am reading every post that you write and you are doing a great job.

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There are no bad writers... Just me!

Wookie

You asked earlier in the thread whether the Legend was becoming sentient. At first I felt that she was, but now I am not so sure. I feel that it is vital to your story that Legend is sentient at some point.

So.... here's what's going through my mind. (passed a lot of boats on the way home from work and Legend popped into my head).

1. If Legend will become sentient because of how she was built, then I feel you can expand that section a LOT more. I may be in the minority, but I thoroughly the building process. With the three or four cable networks dedicated to home improvement/remodeling, I feel the masses can get into it too. For Legend to be a force later on, however, I feel something in the building needs to reinforce that. Not just how she was built, but the blood, sweat, and tears (and whatever else shapeshifting pirates have at their disposal) that went into her. Just a thought that might trigger an idea for ya.

2. If Legend will become sentient because of the experiences of the story, i.e. the raiding, fighting, ramming etc., then I feel the building part is great, maybe a little tinkering. I can see her growing as a character feeding off the experiences of the crew and their emotions.

From what you have given us so far (thanks again Horror), I think it's a combination of the two.

Just a thought I had that might help you out and was relevant to the question you posted earlier. Hope this helps.

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Unraveling the mystery of the Bouchard Code.
The 4:06 posting of brillig, coincidence?
I think not.

horrorcrafter

Wookie-
I feel exactly as you do. I want to go back and make the part about builing Legend much longer and more dtailed, showing the black magic better. On the other hand, there are not many folk like us, who want to know even more about the technical details. Its hard to balance these two factors, but I think I will eventually do just what you said to do. Thanks very much for a solid piece of advice. You may even be able to help, at least a bit, as you are an ironworker, and know how to describe the process of pouring molten metal much better than I ever could. How would YOU change that paragraph, to make it more real, darker, more magical? Just curious... I know you're busy on your own work, but if you do have a spare moment...
Your freind,
Horrorcrafter

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Canadian Lynx are beautiful sensitive creatures which are very good mothers and they make a wide variety of sounds such as meows, purrs, cough-barks, growls, and screams like a woman. She is the next mammal to become extinct in North America largely because we waste so much paper. Please reduce, reuse, and recycle. Cheers, Horrorcrafter

Wookie

I thought that ironworker was used all over the US. I'm a construction worker, specifically the metal framework of most 2+ story buildings. Hehe, not a smithy, but I have seen some demonstrations in Williamsburg. Just wanted to clear that up for ya.

As for Legend, let me see if I can get my thoughts in order and down on paper.

I thought there was some magic involved in the construction of Legend. Here is the giant, screaming neon thought I had: tie the pirate character introductions in with the construction of Legend. Each pirate contributes his work to building her, and in that process gives part of himself to her. I am not sure if this is something you would want to do or had in mind already. I think that if the building and the characters are tied together, then the nuts and bolts of building her is spread out.

As far as building her, I had a couple of thoughts (need to start writing them down when I have 'em). Most of this depends on when and where the shipbuilding takes place. If it takes place in VA and you want to link it to historical events, then it might be better to have it happen before 1600. Jamestown was the first permanent settlement, founded in 1607, and from what I read there was some ship traffic on the Chesapeake Bay. I wanted to mention that in case you wanted to use it or avoid it.

I can't remember when and where the failed settlements were. I know that many settlements didn't survive some harsh winters and disease. The reason that I mention this, I had the thought that a failed settlement might be a source of information, for the pirates, on these "invaders." I also thought this would be a good place for the pirates to get their hands on some tools/items/supplies they would use if they made a ship. The pirates, to me, wouldn't want to let the tools (or cloth, containers, etc.) to go to waste.

Hope this helps, and feel free to ask me to elaborate more about anything.

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Unraveling the mystery of the Bouchard Code.
The 4:06 posting of brillig, coincidence?
I think not.