Idle novel--desiring help - Writers Forum

IndigoEagle · 06-02-2003, 06:13 PM

I have 7 single-spaced pages of an idle novel that I've played around with for about a year and for the life of me, I can't decide whether it's worth pursuing. I was going to browse for the file, but was chagrined to find out that I cannot do that in this forum. It's too long to post altogether. First, how would anyone suggest my getting it out to the forum for critique? Second, when it is accessible, I want to know whether the characters and plot are sound enough that they can keep the momentum. I know some minor details are a bit unrealistic--that's what rewrites are for. I just want to know if I have something worthwhile here.

Let me know how to get my text here (it really is too big to copy-and-paste) and then I look forward to what you have to say.

Thanks
IndigoEagle

HappyTyping · 06-02-2003, 07:31 PM

First of all, you don't need to post the entire 7 pages on the forum to get a critique. Most people can get a feel for your writing by reading less than 750 words of it. If your writing requires a lengthy explanation for the reader to understand what's going on then you need to work on your delivery.

Just post the first couple of paragraphs. If you want a critique of the plot summarize it in a couple of paragraphs and post the summary.

Do you really need someone else to tell you whether your story is worthwhile or not? If you have doubts about it, why not tweak the plots and characters until you are really satisfied with it. Foundational changes like that should really be done before you write as a rewrite at a later stage may require you to scrap a lot of work and redo it.

Here's some tips on how you can strengthen your story.

1. Do you have too many major characters? Most stories work best when there are only 3 significant characters. Sure you can have tonnes of minor walk-ins and small parts but major characters, the ones the story revolves around, should be limited to 3 or less. Too many major characters leads to confusion and weakening of the plot.

2. Is your plot tight? By this I mean does your plot have one story question and is that question fully resolved by the end of the book. For example in a mystery plot the story question is "who committed the crime?" and all the events in that story point to the answer. Have a look at your plot, decide what the story question is and cut anything out that doesn't relate directly to answering that question.

3. Are your characters 3D and well rounded? It's easy to skip over indepth character creation and use stereotypes instead. Cardboard cutout characters are OK for walk-ins and minor characters but not for your major characters. Make sure you fully understand your major characters strengths, weaknesses and motivations before you begin writing. Well rounded characters will make your plot come alive and give you logical reasons for their actions.

4. Is there any one part of the story that just bugs you? This is sure sign that you have a weak spot in the plot or characterisation. When you get the feeling that it just isn't quite right then you should keep asking yourself questions until it does sit right. Ask yourself if it could be done any other way, if the character could feel different and therefore do something else or whether that part is simply unneccessary. It's rare to get the plot exactly right on the first attempt.

Story ideas are not what's important in writing. It's the treatment of those ideas that makes the difference. Any story can be turned into a workable and interesting novel if you give it the right context and characters.

Take another look at your story, play around with it a bit then post an extract for us. We look forward to reading it.

cdm · 06-02-2003, 07:53 PM

You can post a long piece by using the "copy" feature under "edit" in the Windows menu. Simply bring it to screen, highlight as much as you wish to post, click on "copy", then come to the forum and click on "paste". The MS will then appear starting at where the cursor is in the message box.
I agree that all you need is a page or two for critique. Too long, and many of us don't have time to read it.

IndigoEagle · 06-02-2003, 08:22 PM

Thanks for the advice thus far. I'm sending you about one page. I guess the first thing I have to wonder is whether my main character Steve is someone you want to keep reading about. It's difficult because he's kind of a weenie, and that's the point. Ultimately he will grow from that. But will the reader have the patience?

There's one more section I'll send another time that brings up other concerns. I will caution the reader of strong language in this passage.

I look forward to what you all have to say.
IndigoEagle

Chapter 1

The only things that informed Steve Kilmer of the events of the previous evening were a brain pounding in unison with his heart and a tongue that felt like a hedgehog nesting in his mouth. The sun was just peeking through his window—not a good sign, as his bedroom faced west. So Steve estimated from the cruel rays attacking his retinas that it had to be about two in the afternoon. A strained glance at the clock proved him correct: 2:17pm. As he struggled to collect himself, he made another observation: on his nightstand was a bottle of Smirnoff two-thirds empty, sitting on top of a piece of paper. What was that paper, he asked himself. He groaned and moaned, leaning towards the nightstand to pull out the paper from underneath the bottle to refresh his memory. The printing, fuzzy as it was to him, seeped back into his consciousness. His grades. That giant “F” sitting next to the words “PH-475: Topics in Advanced Philosophy—Writings of Wittgenstein” spelt out his future, or lack thereof. The other classes were easy-cheesy:

A- PY-231A: Beginning Scuba [the class he affectionately called “Underwater Basket-weaving”]
A EN-374: American Poetry—1900-present
B+ FI-302: Intermediate Film Theory
B+ HI-333: Native American History

But these were different classes. They were either puffy electives or requirements that, though challenging, fit his interests. The Wittgenstein course finished up his requirements for his philosophy degree; at least, it was supposed to. Now, despite the fact that he had already been accepted to the University of Chicago for his PhD. program, he would now have to get up the nerve to contact the university and inform them that no, he was not going to be attending in the fall; no, he wasn’t smart enough to finish out what he had to do to get his degree over with; no, he was, despite all appearances, a fucking putz with his head up his ass, when it came right down to it; no, despite the fact that he and his professors had convinced Chicago that he would be able to take what they dished out to him, when all was said and done, he didn’t have what it took.

Steve hated those words. He’d heard them all his life, and now, more so than ever, they rang true. He thought about recalling all the times he’d heard them, out loud and unspoken, but that required too much thought for the shape he was in. Coffee. Lots of coffee. That was definitely in order. He dug through dirty laundry in the hope of finding what was least wrinkled and least smelly. A moss green cable-knit sweater, which he pulled over his naked, skinny torso, and an obligatory ball cap completed the ensemble—he had fallen asleep shirtless in his jeans and Birkenstocks.

He started to jet to his front door when a hangover-induced dizzy spell seized him and sent him toppling to the ground. It would not have been quite so bad were it not for the fact that he had not picked up his apartment in quite some time. He scrambled to his feet and, more deliberately, made his way to the door, down the stairs, and outside. The sun blasted his eyes. He pulled his hat way low on his brow.
_________________
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IE

HappyTyping · 06-02-2003, 09:31 PM

Nice insight in your main character. No it doesn't put me off that he is a failing flake with potential, it's completely human and could lead into all sorts of interesting situations and growth opportunities for your character.

The one thing that did strike me about this scene though is "where is this going?" It wasn't clear from your scene why Steve was leaving the apartment or where he was going (apart from a need for coffee). Cause and effect. It would be stronger if he had a more pressing reason for going out preferrably some reason attached to the plot and his failing grade. In real life we do things for trivial reasons but in fiction every action must be attached to the plot and move the story forward.

Here are some other points for consideration.

1. Some of the background information is unnecessary. For example the list of his college subjects. This information doesn't give us any great insight into the character and it's not essential to the plot (or at least it doesn't look that way). The main topic of concern in this scene is the failing grade in his most important subject. I think you could safely stick to that and forget the rest.

2. Your descriptions are good and could benefit from some pruning. I like the description about his head and tongue, that seemed appropriate and created good imagery. Yet the part about the sun's rays seemed a little too much, a simple afternoon sun... sentence would have worked better.

3. Your character insight is good and helped me to both understand the internal workings of Steve and give me background information. Yet it could be made a bit tighter by pruning some words and repetition.

Overall I found empathy with Steve and I cared about his character. It opened in my mind the question, Steve has blown his chances at getting into the college he wants now what happens? You've introduced your major character, set the status quo and created a crisis for your character with loads of tension. So what I want to see now is your character taking some sort of purposeful action that lets me know what happens next in the plot.

Thanks for posting. Best of luck.

cdm · 06-03-2003, 11:23 AM

Agree with the above, and would add one thing.
You need something to hang that first sentence on. It sounds like you're starting in the middle.
I would suggest naming your chapters instead of numbering them, i.e.: chapter one: The Morning After the Night Before

Alternately: SK drifted slowly and painfully out of a deep but unrestful sleep. The only...

I would read on. This has some potential to become a good character study.

donnag · 06-04-2003, 12:28 AM

Hey, I'm new. I read your post first thing, before I'd even registered. It's pretty good, IMO. I tend to be a little snide sometimes, so don't take anything I say the wrong way. You asked for advice, so here goes.

I tend to agree that the list of Steve's other classes is unnecessary. There are 3 other things that seemed to stick out, kind of tripping up the flow.

The first was when he groaned and moaned; he should have done one or the other.

The second one was him falling to the ground inside his apartment. He fell to the floor.

The last one was in the last sentence. The word "way". Low was enough when he pulled his hat down.

P.S. Doesn't this guy have a coffee maker?

Anonymous · 06-18-2003, 03:46 AM

I'm new to this site as of ten minutes ago also.......
Enjoyed reading your beginning......... agree with most responses and would only add a question.
What demographics are targeted with this potential novel, because the phrase concerning Steve "jetting" to his front door might leave someone with the impression his front door was miles away and he commuted via a commuter jet. At least here in the midwest that might be perceived that way..........
Good luck with your story......

IndigoEagle · 06-19-2003, 08:06 PM

Interesting--I'm a Midwesterner in a smallish town and I say "jet" all the time. But the story is set in the Midwest.

Thanks.
IE

lame_o_rama · 07-01-2003, 03:13 PM

I agree with most of what was said before....except the person who said you needed to create more of a beginning. I personally enjoy reading stories that don't seem to really have a beginning...that might just be me.

Also, some of your sentances confused me, granted i'm easily confused, but still. There was one at the end:
"It would not have been quite so bad were it not for the fact that he had not picked up his apartment in quite some time."
It just had the word "not" in it too much, i had to read it twice to completely understand what was being said...that, once again, might just be me (it's not uncommon for me to become confused by something your average joe would percieve as simple), but sometimes the sentences seem just a little more complex than they need to be.

On the conversation about him jetting to the door: I agree that the word "jet" seemed a little out of place to me, but i don't think it made it seem like a long distance...for me the word just seemed to stand out a little too much. Maybe that's because i never hear it used, or maybe it just doesn't fit. either way, that's what i noticed.

Also, i like the character, i feel sorry for him. I can relate to him. We all have our days when we just feel like total shit...we feel worthless and pathetic, and we feel like whining and giving up. I don't think i would become impatient with him, as long as he eventually showed some sort of improvement...

~Krysten

Mariella · 07-02-2003, 02:32 AM

Leave the part in about the sun...it's good.

The grades/class list aren't necessarily necessary, but a reference to them, the fact that he did well, and then move into the facts about the Wittgenstein class would work. That way we see that he is a good student, but for some reason he totally screwed up.