Demons(need a outside opinion) - Writers Forum

crowe1120 · 10-06-2008, 03:52 AM

The crisp air rustled the leaves at his feet, and chilled his face as he walked to the door of his house. The handle was cold from the day’s exposure, which were growing shorter, of fall moving in place of summer. A yellow lab was there for a greeting by way of sniffing his boots. His name was mutt who tended to be the type of dog who was extremely active in order for a treat. Louis hung his coat up on the rack and headed over to make a pot of coffee. Days like today, cold and brisk, were perfect days for him to drink an entire pot of coffee. This tended to contradict his life philosophy of being a fitness instructor. Hypocrisy to him was something that could be allotted every now and then, and his demons tended to sneak up on him. This evening was for sure one of those nights and could not be stopped.
Before heading home for work, force of habit got the better of him, he stopped off at the liquor store for a fifth of jack Daniels, and then for a can of chewing tobacco. These items were extremely ill advised to his clients by him, but tonight there was a reason for this hypocrisy. He simply wanted to let go of everything with excess.
After about the fifth cup of coffee darkness had fallen over the sky, and he called it quits with the caffeine. He had consumed the sufficient amount to keep him up all night defiling his well kept body. Grabbing the bottle of whiskey and chewing tobacco from the counter he embarked on the night, and being it was a Friday night he had nowhere to go and nowhere to be in the morning. He sat on his couch at the coffee table staring out the window into the dark night. Proceeded to pack the can of tobacco, opened the lid pinching a dip. The whiskey sloshed against the walls of the glass as he filled it half way, and filling the other half with cola; the first sip hit him with a punch to the face. It had been over a year since he had partaken in such endeavors. He cracked a window open to listen to the night noises and smell the autumn air. As he drank the whiskey and spit every so often, he thought to himself why did I ever quit this?
The night wore on and half of the bottle had been drunk at this point. He sat the watching movie after movie, with a buzz setting in, and enjoying this time alone. He was still wearing his clothes from the day; a long sleeved work shirt and dark blue Levis, with a pair of some of the finest work boots to date. He hadn’t had any clients that day so he spent playing tennis at a local indoor court near his apartment. Louis spent as much time as he could out playing tennis, but time was hard to find these days. His personal training career had started to boom and people were flocking in day after day. He loved it, but his time playing tennis was more important. The concentration it took to play allowed for him to fully forget life and its trappings. He had started close to a year and half ago on a whim really but falling in love with it. However, at this point in his playing he hadn’t yet reached a level which he wanted to be.
This night was not about tennis, but about drowning memories that had kicked up like bad disease. So, he sat there and drank, and drank into darkness of his mind where those memories could not be found. About an hour before midnight he heard a knock at his door. It wasn’t a loud forceful knock so it couldn’t be a hostel visitor, but the knock had softness to it. Louis stood from his seat and immediately falling back to where he started. The whiskey had set in by this point, so he made another slow successful attempt to stand. Trying to keep his composure, each step was taken with ease. Even with caution he staggered a bit, but ignoring that fact at the same time.
“Who is it there?” he said with a slight slur
“Louis? It’s Sarah, from the gym” she replied in a awkward tone
“Oh, Sarah haha, hold on a second” Louis said laughingly as he opened the door “What are you doing at my place of residence?”
“Last time I talked to you it sounded like you were a little down, but apparently that isn’t the case. What is with that accent? Are you drunk” she questioned
“What accent baby? And no, I am what some might say, mood enhanced.” He replied in a slight southern accent picked up from his dad, and only uses when he is drunk.
“Are you ok Louis? I didn’t even know you drank. What is going on?” she said with concern
Louis in that moment could see through his whiskey fog that she was genuinely concerned, so he calmed down for a moment to explain. The only thing he couldn’t drop was the accent.
“I’m sorry Sarah; if you want to come in I can explain it to you. Let’s go have a seat on the couch in the living area.”
He took her coat and hung it up on the rack next to his door. They walked into the living room to have a seat on the couch.
“Yes, I am drunk Sarah.”
“I can see that Louis”
“Ok, that is fair, but there is actually no real good reason for why I am drunk other than I felt the need.”
“I suppose that is fair” she responded in an understanding tone “Why are you drinking alone though? You know that isn’t good to do.”
“I know, but I wanted a drink so I figured I would go at it all on my lonesome” he slurred in his accent
“Well let me catch up with you.”
He was taking back a bit, because she had been the cleanest cut girl he had ever met in his life. To his knowledge she hadn’t even looked at a beer let alone take a shot.

Olly Buckle · 10-06-2008, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crowe1120

The crisp air rustled the leaves at his feet, and chilled his face as he walked to the door of his house. The handle was cold from the day’s exposure, which were growing shorter, of fall moving in place of summer. A strangely constructed sentence, one day's exposure, multiple days getting shorter, as fall rather than of fall A yellow lab was there for a greeting by way of sniffing his boots Was it there for a greeting or to give one?. His name was mutt capital for name who tended to be the type of dog who was extremely active in order for a treat.The sentence doesn't hang together, try "and he " instead of "who" and "to get" instead of "in order for" Louis hung his coat up on the rack and headed over to make a pot of coffee. Days like today, cold and brisk, were perfect days for him to drink an entire pot of coffee. This tended to contradict his life philosophy of being a fitness instructor. Being a fitness instructor is an occupation , not a life philosophy, rephrase. Hypocrisy to him was something that could be allotted Allotted what? every now and then, and lose the "and" or the comma his demons tended to sneak up on him. This evening was for sure one of those nights and could not be stopped.This reads the evening could not be stopped rather than his demon.
Before heading home for work, force of habit got the better of him, he stopped off at the liquor store for a fifth of J jack Daniels, and then for a can of chewing tobacco Sounds like he stopped at the liquor store twice. These items were extremely ill advised to his clients by him,Awkward construction "He advised his clients against such things" but tonight there was a reason for this hypocrisy. He simply wanted to let go of everything with excess.
After about the fifth cup of coffee darkness had fallen over the sky, and he called it quits with the caffeine. He had consumed the a sufficient amount to keep him up all night, defiling his well kept body. Grabbing the bottle of whiskey and chewing tobacco In one bottle? from the counter he embarked on the night, and being as, not being, but maybe yours is an American idiom it was a Friday night he had nowhere to go and nowhere to be in the morning. He sat on his couch at the coffee table staring out of the window into the dark night. Proceeded to pack the can of tobacco, opened the lid pinching a dip What...?. The whiskey sloshed against the walls of the glass as he filled it half way, and filling the other half with cola; the first sip hit him with a punch to the face And that was just from filling it. It had been over a year since he had partaken in such endeavors Spelled wrong, but I think you mean excess. He cracked a window open to listen to the night noises and smell the autumn air. As he drank the whiskey and spit spat every so often, he thought to himself why did I ever quit this?
The night wore on and half of the bottle had been drunk at this point Which point. He sat there watching movie after movie, with a buzz setting in, and enjoying this time alone. He was still wearing his clothes from the day; a long sleeved work shirt and dark blue Levis, with a pair of some of the finest work boots to date. He hadn’t had any clients that day so he had spent it playing tennis at a local indoor court near his apartment. Louis spent as much time as he could out indoor court playing tennis, but time was hard to find these days. His personal training career had started to boom and people were flocking in day after day. He loved it, but his time playing tennis was more important. The concentration it took to play allowed for him to fully forget life and its trappings. He had started close to a year and half ago, on a whim really, but falling in love with it. However, at this point in his playing he hadn’t yet reached a level which he wanted to be. A level he wanted

Sorry I have to get off to work myself and don't have time to go all the way through.
I would suggest reading it aloud rather than just reading it, that can make awkward constructions jump out at you.
Try to keep things that relate to each other together in the sentence.
Sometimes less is more, saying things in the simplest way is usually more stylish.
Leaving things for a bit and then re-reading often helps you see problems as well

PSFoster · 10-06-2008, 06:04 PM

I tried reading, but it's too close. Spaces between paragraphs would help.

Olly Buckle · 10-06-2008, 06:54 PM

I probably didn't notice that because it's one of my worst faults. Before the first edit things are quite often one long sentence with commas for me.

wern5821 · 10-07-2008, 07:34 PM

His name was mutt who tended to be the type of dog who was extremely active in order for a treat

This is another way to write this sentence so it makes more sense...

His name was Mutt. He tended to be the type of dog that was extremely active in order to get a treat.

Olly Buckle · 10-09-2008, 04:48 AM

wern5821's example is a bit like this one from the beginning

The handle was cold from the day’s exposure, which were growing shorter, of fall moving in place of summer

The first part is fine on it's own, but then there is something you don't say which makes it difficult to follow, re-written it might go:-

The handle was cold from the day's exposure. The days were getting shorter as fall replaced summer.

I have been thinking about this and I think the problem is that you write as you speak. When you say something to some one there is all sorts of information passed as well as the words, intonations of the voice, gestures with your hands, even the way you hold your body can imply things. When you write there is nothing to convey this stuff so you have to make it all absolutely clear what belongs with what, otherwise working it out slows your readers down and stops them following the story properly. A good way to pick up this sort of habit is reading something well written. When I say that people usually think it will be boring, intellectual stuff, but it doesn't have to be. I usually recommend things like the "Hornblower" series (I think they are by Forester, but I get mixed up with Forster). They are adventure yarns about Nelson's navy and follow a young recruit from midshipman through his career to retirement as Admiral. Arthur Upfield writes great detective stories about a half aboriginal detective in the outback of Australia and Alexander Mcall-Smith writes easily read inconsequential novels about Botswana and Edinburgh, "The number one ladies detective agency" and "44,Scotland Street" are the first in each series. Fay Weldon writes good novels with unusual themes. You don't need to labour over "literature" to find something well written and you will pick up habits of writing in the same way you have picked up habits of talking.
When you have done so a bit it is worth reading something like William Strunk "The elements of style", but this lays out all the rules using phrases like "a participle phrase at the beginning of a sentence must relate to the grammatical subject" which is well off putting at first but shows you the difference between
Walking down the road he saw a dude and two fit women (standing on the corner)
and
(standing on the corner)He saw a dude and two fit women walking down the road

I added "standing on the corner" to make the difference clearer but it's still there.

Hope this helps you, I used to find it well frustrating having something to say and not getting it across, the change doesn't happen quickly but one day you look at your work and realise how much better it isand it is really satisfying, it happens through reading and practice, keep at it.

The Backward OX · 10-09-2008, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle

it is worth reading something like William Strunk "The elements of style", but this lays out all the rules using phrases like "a participle phrase at the beginning of a sentence must relate to the grammatical subject" which is well off putting at first but shows you the difference between
Walking down the road he saw a dude and two fit women (standing on the corner)
and
(standing on the corner)He saw a dude and two fit women walking down the road

I added "standing on the corner" to make the difference clearer but it's still there.

It’s funny you should say that.

Funny peculiar not funny haha

I wouldn’t know my participle phrases or my grammatical subjects if they jumped up and chased me ‘round the mulberry bush, but I do know how to express it if I want the reader to clearly understand that it’s me standing on the corner and that it’s the two fit birds plus a non-specific dude walking down the road, or vice-versa. Seems pretty fundamental to me. All this ‘Elements of Style’ stuff just makes your teeth itch.

I suppose there has to be some nurture in there somewhere, along with the nature. In my case it was reading legal documents. My suggestion to the OP is to do that too. Before you start writing, spend the next twenty or thirty years reading long-winded stuff composed by lawyers, and then your sentence structure will all fall into place.

JosephB · 10-09-2008, 07:34 AM

Quote:

A yellow lab was there for a greeting by way of sniffing his boots. His name was mutt who tended to be the type of dog who was extremely active in order for a treat.

Here's is yet another way to write it. Above, you're telling me that he's active not showing me. Yes, yes, it's the old show vs. tell:

Mutt, his yellow lab, greeted him by sniffing his boots. He barked and ran in circles; his way of asking for a treat.

I've told you more 23 words than the original, which is 35 words. It's also easier to read, and moves your reader along to the next sentence.

And you've got phrases that aren't needed, like "by way of." "He tended to be" instead of "he was." These really don't add anything -- they are just extra words.

crowe1120 · 10-09-2008, 08:09 AM

Thank you so much Olly for bringing this up. I have actually been told, by a couple of professors, that I do write as I speak. I tend to forget I am doing it, especially if I have really gotten into what I am writing. I will also take up your suggestions on how to correct this problem. I do have one handicap to keep in mind while reading any of my posts, and that is my dyslexia. I am fully aware that this can make my writing seem to go every which way. Thank you everybody for suggestion, especially with the line about the dog's name.

JosephB · 10-09-2008, 10:36 AM

Crowe, I read the whole thing. I think in addition to Olly's comments, you have a bigger issue. You use three very dense paragraphs to set up your story. And they don't work very hard for you as far as telling the story and revealing what you want the reader to know about the character.

Examine the events of the first paragraphs:

Louis came home from his job as a fitness instructor.

He was greeted by his dog

He’d stopped on the way home to by chewing tobacco and Jack Daniels

He got drunk – to drown his sorrows -- and watched movies.

You want to tell us what happened of course, but you also want to reveal something about him and his circumstances. You do this well by telling us that despite the fact he’s a fitness instructor, he’s bummed-out enough to be hypocritical and get drunk and chew tobacco.

But there are details that add nothing. Is it important that it’s an early fall day and that the doorknob was cold? Maybe – later in the story, but this is your critical opening and you don’t want to waste words.

Suppose he came home and noticed that there were no messages on his answering machine? This might tell us he’s in for a lonely night –- that information might be more important than telling us the doorknob was cold.

OK, I rewrote this to show you a different way of looking at it. I'm not telling you to write like I do. Nor am I telling you that what you've written can't work without some editing. Rather, I am showing you that you can reveal more about the character and advance the story using fewer words. Your opening is all important -- so you want to draw the reader in and not bore him with unnecessary details.

After a long day working at the fitness center, Louis unlocked his front door and walked into his apartment. Mutt, his yellow lab, greeted him by sniffing his boots. Mutt barked and ran in circles; his way of asking for a treat.

“At least I can count on you, Mutt,” Louis said, as he rubbed the dog's head.

Louis had stopped on his way home to buy a bottle of Jack Daniels and a pouch of chewing tobacco. His students at the fitness center would be surprised. But he shook off his hypocrisy, satisfied that he had a good excuse. He looked at his answering machine and saw no messages. He sighed; resigned that he was in for another lonely Friday night.

He went to his kitchen and poured a glass of bourbon. He drank it at ounce before stuffing his cheek with chewing tobacco. He opened a window, took in the cool autumn air and listened to the sounds of nightfall. As he felt the bourbon take effect, he smiled and wondered why he’d ever stopped drinking.

Mutt sniffed at his heels as he made his way to the living room. He popped in a DVD and sat on his couch. Three movies and a half-bottle of bourbon later, the doorbell rang.

Now, did I leave anything out? The coffee thing wasn't needed. It didn't matter what he was wearing or even that he'd played tennis. If tennis is important to the story -- reveal it when it's needed. You want to tell us your MC is depressed about something -- what? That's the question that will keep readers going. Tell us where he is. Let us know something about him. Tell us how he feels. Add details as you see fit, a touch of poetic description etc. But get to the point.

I think you have some issues with your dialog also, but I'm out of time. If you're interested, I can address those later.

crowe1120 · 10-10-2008, 01:31 AM

Joseph B, That is a great point and I firmly agree with you. It seems to be my worst trait, that sometimes I just don't develop the characters. To put things in perspective I will admit this was somewhat of a free write rough draft deal. However, the point still stands that the character was not developed. I like your ideas and really is what I was shooting towards. If you have tips on dialogue I would appreciate it.

Olly Buckle · 10-10-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

It’s funny you should say that.

Funny peculiar not funny haha

I wouldn’t know my participle phrases or my grammatical subjects if they jumped up and chased me ‘round the mulberry bush, but I do know how to express it if I want the reader to clearly understand that it’s me standing on the corner and that it’s the two fit birds plus a non-specific dude walking down the road, or vice-versa. Seems pretty fundamental to me. All this ‘Elements of Style’ stuff just makes your teeth itch.

I suppose there has to be some nurture in there somewhere, along with the nature. In my case it was reading legal documents. My suggestion to the OP is to do that too. Before you start writing, spend the next twenty or thirty years reading long-winded stuff composed by lawyers, and then your sentence structure will all fall into place.

A little while ago I wouldn't have had an inkling about them either. I also find it easy to make the distinction, but I have been an avid reader since I learned about sixty years ago, and I picked one of the simpler examples. It is a very useful little book, but a version which doesn't use those words is overdue (I am on it, good way to learn it thoroughly at the same time). I wouldn't recomend reading legal documents. That was my point about reading people like Aurther Upfield (Thank you Ox) et al. There are things to read which are well written and fun as well as things that are well written and extremely serious, why not have fun.

Olly Buckle · 10-10-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crowe1120

Joseph B, To put things in perspective I will admit this was somewhat of a free write rough draft deal.

I learned from professional musicians, they say "Nothing leaves the studio until we are 100% satisfied with it". Of course I have submitted things that I have rewritten later. But the first time I let it out in public I had gone over it and felt fully satisfied. I think I learn more from my own critique and revision than I do from the comments on the forum sometimes.

JosephB · 10-10-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle

It is a very useful little book, but a version which doesn't use those words is overdue (I am on it, good way to learn it thoroughly at the same time).

I have Elements of Style. I used it frequently when I first started writing and still pick it up occasionally.

The terminology used isn't very important to me, rather the examples. I didn't know what a parenthetical phrase was, but I could see what it was, and how and when a comma should be used in relation to it, just by looking at the examples. So you can usually just ignore the technical definitions.

It's a great little reference. I used to recomend it in almost all my critiques in this section of the forum.

JosephB · 10-10-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

If you have tips on dialogue I would appreciate it.

OK.

Quote:

“Louis? It’s Sarah, from the gym” she replied in a awkward tone

You can lose almost all the descriptions and modifiers in the dialog, like "in an awkward tone." or "laughingly."

These are just going to interrupt the flow of your dialog. The situation and the dialog itself should do the work.

Quote:

“I’m sorry Sarah; if you want to come in I can explain it to you. Let’s go have a seat on the couch in the living area.”

People don't speak like that. Here's likely how someone would say this:

"Sorry, Sarah. Come on in and I'll explain."

Quote:

“Ok, that is fair, but there is actually no real good reason for why I am drunk other than I felt the need.”

"There's no good reason. I just felt like getting drunk."

Read you dialog aloud. This will help a great deal.

Quote:

“Yes, I am drunk Sarah.”
“I can see that Louis”

People rarely repeat each others names in conversation. Maybe when they are angry or they are trying to emphasizes a point.

You've got some formatting issues. For example, use a comma between the dialogue and the dialog tag. (the words used to identify the speaker: "he said/she said"):

"Let's go to that French restaurant," she said.

I'd suggest looking up examples -- do a little research on this. This is all easy to find and learn.