1984 - Page 5 - Writers Forum

Hodge · 12-27-2006, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

But you'd be wrong. He was writing specifically about Stalin. Read his biography, related essays etc.

Would I, now? Perhaps you'd like to cite his biography and related essays? No? Then take your arrogant bullshit elsewhere. Believe it or not, people do get tired of you speaking as if you're an authority on everything all the time. As always, you show no tact.

Fantasy of You · 12-27-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Would I, now? Perhaps you'd like to cite his biography and related essays? No? Then take your arrogant bullshit elsewhere. Believe it or not, people do get tired of you speaking as if you're an authority on everything all the time. As always, you show no tact.

That's a pretty ironic statement. Don't get pissed off because you're wrong, Hodge. It happens.

Knightskye · 12-28-2006, 02:22 AM

So, people just interpreted Orwell's work as 'prophetic,' even though it just happened to somewhat turn out the way he wrote it? Sounds like Nostradamus to me.

I have a question, how close are we to arresting people for "thought crime"? Hah, I'd probably be sentenced to life with no chance of parole.

Mike C · 12-28-2006, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

As always, you show no tact.

Note to self - in future, pussyfoot around the pussy.

Hoge, I do believe you were spouting like an authority, as you often do... there was only one difference between out posts - yours was misinformed.

Don't take it to heart. I'm older than you, I've read a lot more than you, travelled more than you, and experienced more. It's not suprising I know more than you, is it?

Mike C · 12-28-2006, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightskye

So, people just interpreted Orwell's work as 'prophetic,' even though it just happened to somewhat turn out the way he wrote it? Sounds like Nostradamus to me.

Indeed, although Orwell's extrapolation of a future society based on his thoughts of the existing one could legitimately be called prophetic.

Mike C · 12-28-2006, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

Perhaps you'd like to cite his biography and related essays? No?

Yes, but I don't intend making a habit of it, as having to cite sources every time you said something stupid could become a fill time job.

For the circumstances surrounding the publication of Animal Farm (including an attempt from within the British Government to ban it - at that point Stalin was seen as a friend of the UK) see Complete Works (ed Michael Meyer) XIV.

Orwell broke his own tradition by not even submitting the book to his usual publisher (Gollancz) because they would "hardly want to sponsor a draught of undiluted anti-Stalinism".

The book eventually went to Cape, who at the last moment pulled the plug on the advice of an 'important official' at the Ministry of information, as anti-soviet and anti Stalinist texts were frowned on, and the portrayal of Stalin as a pig considered offensive. The 'important official was later revealed to be Peter Smollet, who was unmasked as a Soviet agent.

Last two paragraphs quoted/paraphrased from 'Orwell - The Life' by D J Taylor.

Does that make you happy Hodge?

Loulou · 12-28-2006, 09:27 AM

I read 1984 many years ago when I was about 14 - not in a class, I didn't pay attention at school, but out of curiosity. Haven't read it since then so will have to go and see how I find it now as an adult.

I recall that I devoured it in two nights. In my simplistic teenage mind I seem to remember taking it to be a predictive book, in the sense that he had written very insightfully about how Britain came to be. And how right he was, that we have ended up with a governemnt who do want to control us ('nanny state') and with camera's literally everywhere (we are apparently being filmed at any given moment.) I felt definitely that the book was about social control. I'm not bothered whether he was referring specifically to a period in time, I just got a lot out of the theme.

Obviously, I haven't read it since I was a kid - I might read it now and think differently.

Oh, as for there being a happy ending... That'd be like making a film about Jesus and having him live happily ever after in the Graden of Eden. Happy endings are for wusses

Hodge · 12-28-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Does that make you happy Hodge?

Yes. Was that so hard? You could have just done this and not be a dick, but I knew you wouldn't resist the urge. Of course, what you cited doesn't really reference the book being strictly about Stalinism, but it's nice to see you made the effort.

I still disagree, which is the beauty about literary interpretation.

Raging_Hopeful · 12-28-2006, 02:00 PM

Awww.... Mike and Hodge. The banter is amusing.

Anyhoo, I read both 1984 and Animal Farm and liked them both... although I struggled more with 1984. Probably because I read it on my own while Animal Farm was done in class so a lot more resources and analyzing took place. Both are political classics and should be read by all.

Oh, and to whoever thinks they should be reading Eragon first and .... "get around to [1984] eventually" you fill me with shame. You literary traitor.

CPiseco · 12-28-2006, 07:39 PM

I'm not so sure I agree. In his essay, 'Guilt, Bad Conscience and Related Matters,' he discusses cruelty and it's culmination to use by the powerful as a means of punishment. The punishment (cruelty) is a means of satisfaction; gratifying the imposing of one's will over another.

This is a continuation of his master-slave morality first linked to his 'will to power' works. In fact, Nietzche argues that "submissiveness to authority" by the "downtrodden masses" was considered a good quality via the slave morality.

On Nietzsche (Robert Cavalier, Carnegie Mellon):
"Rather, our "consciousness" (both individual and societal) is merely a perspectival point that seeks to gain control over that which surrounds it, and in so doing it creatively constructs a world."

Power and control go hand-in-hand, much in the same way Nietzsche argued that both pain and joy were inseperable; that creation and destruction cannot exist one without the other.

Shawn · 12-29-2006, 12:56 AM

One of my favorite books. Really, anyone who doesn't get the really deep themes in it must have bee blighted in the head when they were young.

Mike C · 12-30-2006, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

Yes. Was that so hard? You could have just done this and not be a dick, but I knew you wouldn't resist the urge. Of course, what you cited doesn't really reference the book being strictly about Stalinism, but it's nice to see you made the effort.

I still disagree, which is the beauty about literary interpretation.

I didn't really cite anything specific, just pointed you in the right direction and hoped maybe you'd read something for yourself rather than recycling tired old - incorrect - opinion.

I still live in hope.

audacity · 01-02-2007, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

I wouldn't say Stalinism. I would say he's critiquing the whole communist system because it inevitably leads to something like Stalinism.

That's exactly what the book is about, the unstoppable progression from communism to Stalinism or a similar government. If you would pretend not to hate the people you argue with, you'd be a lot more persuasive, Hodge, as you are generally right (not that I need to tell you that).

As for 1984, I wasn't a huge fan. I had gotten amazing reviews of the book from friends, which always raises ones expectations and lowers ones final impression. Also, I was aware before reading that the concept of a government with total control would be used in the book; I was probably less shocked and interested as a result.

Shawn · 01-04-2007, 12:12 AM

1984 is most certainly not a ripoff! I'll have you know Orwell was most likely in a drug induced haze while he wrote it... the prose does get a little drawling at times.

Mike C · 01-05-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

I'll have you know Orwell was most likely in a drug induced haze while he wrote it...

Really? That opinion is based on...?