Burroughs - Writers Forum

Malone · 06-18-2008, 03:36 PM

I find William Burroughs to be abstract almost to a fault. He can certainly string together some beautiful sentences, but I've read a couple books of his and I find them to be often too vague and wandering - just all over the place and hard to follow. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but when I hear him referred to as the greatest author of his generation, I have to think he's a little overrated. I'll take Kerouac over Burroughs any day. He's definitely a genius, but his overall capacity to maintain any kind of tangible thought just turns me off.
His intro to Naked Lunch is a better written than the actual novel in my opinion.

dwellerofthedeep · 06-18-2008, 04:29 PM

I really thought this was going to be about Edgar Rice Burroughs. Well, this is an interesting development.

Well, this Burroughs was certainly an interesting man, even if/because he was a little crazy.

Edgewise · 06-18-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malone

I find William Burroughs to be abstract almost to a fault. He can certainly string together some beautiful sentences, but I've read a couple books of his and I find them to be often too vague and wandering - just all over the place and hard to follow. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but when I hear him referred to as the greatest author of his generation, I have to think he's a little overrated. I'll take Kerouac over Burroughs any day. He's definitely a genius, but his overall capacity to maintain any kind of tangible thought just turns me off.
His intro to Naked Lunch is a better written than the actual novel in my opinion.

Co-sign.

I could not get through Naked Lunch, although one of my favorite quotes is contained within.

Too much pedophilia-rape-murder-vague abstractness.

lin · 06-18-2008, 05:37 PM

He was actually the only legitimate literary genius of the Beats.

He's an amazingly beautiful writer and his intellectual underpinnings are awesome.

Naked Lunch had much more impact at the time...it was published during the FIFTIES in AMERICA, don't forget...but still stands up as an amazing piece of literature.

Even wilder, in many ways, is Planets of the Red Dawn.

Malone · 06-18-2008, 06:21 PM

I read an excerpt from one of his novels about a surgeon operating on someone and getting cigarette ash into the patient then forcing his way onto a lifeboat. Fun stuff, but still a little to abstract. I don't mind his subject matter, that's actually the most appealing part to me.

I'll check out Red Dawn if I can find it.

strangedaze · 06-18-2008, 07:37 PM

I agree with Link: Burroughs is the only Beat, next to maybe Ginsberg (but poems aren't my thing) that I actually care about. remotely.

Edgewise · 06-18-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lin

He was actually the only legitimate literary genius of the Beats.

He's an amazingly beautiful writer and his intellectual underpinnings are awesome.

Naked Lunch had much more impact at the time...it was published during the FIFTIES in AMERICA, don't forget...but still stands up as an amazing piece of literature.

Even wilder, in many ways, is Planets of the Red Dawn.

Out of innocent curiousity, what were the intellectual underpinnings of Naked Lunch?

EDIT: Other than being published in the Fifties, of course. I can see how the book would be revolutionary by virtue of its seemingly arbitrary vulgarity, but, other than that, I am genuinely curious as to its intellectual significance.

lin · 06-18-2008, 09:37 PM

And you expect me to explain intellect things to you when you can't see them for yourself?

I've been trying, and it's a thankless task.

Tell you what, read a book called "The Algebra of Need" a critical study of Naked Lunch and other Burroughs work. Possibly the only really ellucidative criticism of a book I've ever read, actually.

It might straighten you out. This time.

Quote:

I can see how the book would be revolutionary by virtue of its seemingly arbitrary vulgarity,

Now, see, if I said something like "what a clueless dumshit!" about that lamo statement, I'd be mean, huh?

So I'll leave it sit there to say it for itself.

lin · 06-18-2008, 09:38 PM

"Seemingly arbitary" is about as definitive a phrase for cluelessness as any I can think of.

There is a time in the history of races and humans in which night and day, and the movement of the celestial bodies are seen as arbitrary.

lin · 06-18-2008, 09:39 PM

NEXT TO GINSBURG????????????

You really see something of value in that guy? I mean literary value, he's pretty well known as an asshole at the personal level.

Edgewise · 06-19-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lin

And you expect me to explain intellectual things to you when you can't see them for yourself?

I've been trying, and it's a thankless task.

Tell you what, read a book called "The Algebra of Need" a critical study of Naked Lunch and other Burroughs work. Possibly the only really ellucidative criticism of a book I've ever read, actually.

It might straighten you out. This time.

Why the attitude?

Now, see, if I said something like "what a clueless dumshit!" about that lamo statement, I'd be mean, huh?

So I'll leave it sit there to say it for itself.

lin, why the condescending attitude? Because we got into an argument that went nowhere? I asked a simple question AGAIN, and you are unable to provide an answer in which you refrain from personal attacks. This is getting tiring.

Edgewise · 06-19-2008, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lin

"Seemingly arbitary" is about as definitive a phrase for cluelessness as any I can think of.

Read between the lines, or at least try to interpret what I said sweetheart. I am open to the possibility that there is anything to Naked Lunch other than pedaphilia and violence which is thrown in there at a whim for shock purpose.

There is a time in the history of races and humans in which night and day, and the movement of the celestial bodies are seen as arbitrary.

Olly Buckle · 06-19-2008, 02:20 AM

Take Kerouak over him any day? Ever tried reading Dr Sax? It's hard to find, there's a reason for that, words like meandering, obscure, personalised rubbish spring to mind. It seems to me that most authors of note turn out some things that are sub-standard, making the whole "favourite author" thing a bit pointless next to "favourite book". Look at Joseph Heller, "Catch 22" one of the best novels of all time, "Something Happened" I didn't get past page forty, and I'm tenacious. There are exceptions, Jane Austen is pretty consistent, though I haven't read Lady Susan yet.

Malone · 06-19-2008, 02:25 AM

Hehe. Well, I'm certainly not a huge Kerouac fan, but I thought On the Road was easier to read and more fluid than Naked lunch, which made it overall more enjoyable to me. I've picked up a couple more Burroughs books this afternoon, so I'll be giving them a try. The only other of his I've read besides Naked Lunch is one where he spends most of the novel talking about his childhood.

lin · 06-19-2008, 11:23 PM

Well, yeah, On the Road is essentially All-American College Boy Gets Bohemian And Heads Out. Very simplistic spiel. Much of it typed on rolls of paper in day long jags.

NO comparing it to Burroughs, who is more like a Joyce type, and a shockingly original vision of what a novel can be.