Thread: Self-published works?

Not sure if this is the right forum for this question, my apologies if it has to be moved.


Would any of you consider buying self-published (fiction) books?

Does anyone know of any self-published success stories?

I was considering doing something along those lines and wondered if anyone knew of any writers who had produced something viable/readable that you would expect to find in a traditional book store (not that they aren't often repositories of literary suppositories ), or do you view it all as poorly written rubbish that would be the first thing you'd use as toilet paper after the bombs fall?

I've heard of some successful, or at least well regarded self-pub books: The Arc, by Boyd Morrison (apparently got a traditional publishing deal out of it), a friend read and liked The Karamaz Tomb by some scottish guy he found online, but beyond that... I haven't heard much (or not much good anyway).

If you use music as an analogy, unsigned acts often get "discovered" by releasing their own works... so I guess my main question is, do you think that translates to the literary world? Does the art transcend its manner of delivery? Can self-published works of fiction be successful and more importantly, would you buy one?


Thanks for any responses

Can self-published works of fiction be successful and more importantly,

I think you answered your own question with The Arc. ; )

After good word-of-mouth and some online reviews, I would probably buy a good self-published novel. Haven't bought one yet though.

Personally, I am weary because self-publishing many times means a traditional publisher didn't want their work.

If its on the shelf at the bookstore and it catches my eye I don't care who published it. And most readers won't. If its not on the shelves it won't be brought. Thats all it comes down to. Marketing is also critical, but is a moot point if I have to go looking for the book.

Eargon (Christopher Paloni) is another example of a best seller that was originally self published. It appears to have workied in limited cases.

It's worked in lots of cases. John Grisham originally self published. "Watership Down", "Chariots of Fire", "Jonathan Livingstone Seagull" and "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" were also originally self published before becoming bestsellers in the mainstream.

Originally Posted by BoredMormon

If its on the shelf at the bookstore and it catches my eye I don't care who published it. And most readers won't. If its not on the shelves it won't be brought. Thats all it comes down to. Marketing is also critical, but is a moot point if I have to go looking for the book.

Eargon (Christopher Paloni) is another example of a best seller that was originally self published. It appears to have workied in limited cases.

Yeah, I agree with this. If it's on the shelf and the story looks good, I'll get it. If I have to go to some special website, punch up the author's name, and go through some type of deal like that, then there's no chance.

Have a look at this thread...
http://www.writingforums.com/writers...ly-so-bad.html

A few of your questions are answered in it.

Excellent, thanks a lot for the responses and for the link Selorian (an interesting, if unnecessarily combative thread).

Makes you wonder how those select few "made it", though it seems quality will out. Like Grisham and Adams - i didn't know they initially self-published.

Though the fact that Eragon was self-pub also answers some questions... as it's a good example of a sub par book that made it to the mainstream by virtue of a solid marketing hook (the age of the writer). So I guess that is often what it comes down to... same thing with whether or not it's on the shelves - regardless of the quality of writing, it seems access to a paying audience is the big difference.

Plenty to think about, thanks guys.

The self-publishing successes are exceptions to the rule, but at least it means it's remotely possible to get noticed and make money with self-published fiction. The Eragon kid's parents had money and marketing savvy. They were able to fly him to cities all over the country to self-promote in book stores, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, I'm a word-of-mouth reader. Between working my day job, taking care of my family, and building my writing career one grain of sand at a time, I don't really have much time to "discover" books. When I'm reading, I'm reading in my genre, and I'm reading the stuff that won or was nominated for Hugos and Nebulas and Locuses. But if, during my occasional Google search for something relevant to my current project, I come across a book that more than a few people like, I'll probably buy it. I don't really pay attention to publishers, just reviews. Excluding required reading in school, I can count the number of books I've read and disliked on one hand.

And, off topic, I read the Dangerous Days of Daniel X on airplane last week and it was the worst piece of crap I've ever read.

I would love to self-publish my own book(once it is done), so, yes, I would love to read one.

I am also a word-of-mouth type person, or if I browse through my local library and see something interesting. I do not care if it was published by a huge publisher, or my the author himself, if it is good, I will read it.

Just my thoughts,

Li Li

Originally Posted by Varelin

Would any of you consider buying self-published (fiction) books?

Yes.

Does anyone know of any self-published success stories?

The famous examples already listed.

If you use music as an analogy, unsigned acts often get "discovered" by releasing their own works... so I guess my main question is, do you think that translates to the literary world?

Not today.

Does the art transcend its manner of delivery?

It should, but it doesn't.

Can self-published works of fiction be successful and more importantly, would you buy one?

Yes, but rarely, and maybe, if I've heard of it and dig the idea.

Other people you may have heard of who self-published include Sir Isaac Newton (who had to ask a friend to fund publication of a book called the Principia Mathematica, and if you aren't a scientist, you may not know how important that book really was), Mark Twain (who's famous for having self-published, but what's less well-known is that he went bankrupt doing it), and the literary executors of a certain Elizabethan playwright who, to the best of our knowledge, never actually called himself William Shakespeare, even though in the modern world we seem to have decided this is how his name should have been spelled.

A person you haven't heard of who's self-published is me. I've also published via the more traditional route. So even though I'm about to stray from fact to opinion, I'm doing so on the basis of personal experience.

The "traditional" model where you use an agent and a publisher who pays you an advance is moribund. Ebooks and ebook readers are the future, and traditional agents and publishers have a smaller, and declining, role in their production and marketing. The web has changed things forever.

A good analogy for this is the music industry, where the record labels are in their final death throes while anyone who can play an instrument, and many who can't, have a demo on their myspace page that you can download. Myspace bands range from the talentless no-hopers (which is 99% of them) and the talented few, some of whom will make it big. Because even though people download and file-share their songs for free, they're not relying on album sales for revenue any more. The industry has changed.

Expect the same with ebooks. They will be file-shared and you cannot stop this from happening. No copy protection can possibly work because of a thing called the "analogue hole". You will not be selling books in future, you will be giving them away.

What you can sell, though, is advertising space in your book, and I've found there's a market for that which is tolerably lucrative (at least by the meagre standards of the publishing industry). And you'll also find that ebook downloads do lead to a steady trickly of print sales from your POD printer. (I use Lulu.)
So people will download and read your ebook for free.

Originally Posted by Non Serviam
Other people you may have heard of who self-published include Sir Isaac Newton (who had to ask a friend to fund publication of a book called the Principia Mathematica, and if you aren't a scientist, you may not know how important that book really was), Mark Twain (who's famous for having self-published, but what's less well-known is that he went bankrupt doing it), and the literary executors of a certain Elizabethan playwright who, to the best of our knowledge, never actually called himself William Shakespeare, even though in the modern world we seem to have decided this is how his name should have been spelled.

A person you haven't heard of who's self-published is me. I've also published via the more traditional route. So even though I'm about to stray from fact to opinion, I'm doing so on the basis of personal experience.

The "traditional" model where you use an agent and a publisher who pays you an advance is moribund. Ebooks and ebook readers are the future, and traditional agents and publishers have a smaller, and declining, role in their production and marketing. The web has changed things forever.

A good analogy for this is the music industry, where the record labels are in their final death throes while anyone who can play an instrument, and many who can't, have a demo on their myspace page that you can download. Myspace bands range from the talentless no-hopers (which is 99% of them) and the talented few, some of whom will make it big. Because even though people download and file-share their songs for free, they're not relying on album sales for revenue any more. The industry has changed.

Expect the same with ebooks. They will be file-shared and you cannot stop this from happening. No copy protection can possibly work because of a thing called the "analogue hole". You will not be selling books in future, you will be giving them away.

What you can sell, though, is advertising space in your book, and I've found there's a market for that which is tolerably lucrative (at least by the meagre standards of the publishing industry). And you'll also find that ebook downloads do lead to a steady trickly of print sales from your POD printer. (I use Lulu.)
So people will download and read your ebook for free.

Bah. Humbug.

Your comments might hold true for cookbooks and dictionaries and telephone directories.

But readers of fiction want something more. Stories – with the exception of fantasy and science fiction, which could well go online - are souvenirs of the way we felt, and people will go on wanting them in paper book form. They want to be not interrupted by online media distractions such as hyperlinks. They want peaceful reading, in beds and bathtubs and airport lounges and on the beaches, and in the fields, and in the hills, and in the streets.... Paper books are here to stay. We will never surrender....

IMHO

Originally Posted by Non Serviam

OMark Twain (who's famous for having self-published, but what's less well-known is that he went bankrupt doing it)

Mark Twain made lots of bad investments and just wasn't very good with money. I believe he lost the most money investing in a typesetting technology that didn't pan out. I don't know that self-publishing had much to do with his going bankrupt.

You'll find a great variety of opinions on this, usually influenced by whether the individual making them has self-published or not! One thing to bear in mind is that the list of successful "self-publishers" is very very small, and is the exception.

The publishing sector is currently in flux, and things are changing. Like every media, digital technology has changed the way that consumers think. However, it hasn't changed much with regard to producing work.

It is not the "ability" of the common man to produce works that is changing things. It has always been incredibly easy and cheap to print your own books. Desktop publishing has been around for about 30 years, but even before that it wasn't a big deal. The reason that publishers were considered the way forward was because of the niggly bits they took care of, such as storage of books, distribution, getting them to the point of sale and marketing.

With digital media, the storage issue is gone. You don't need the 10,000 odd copies that made self-publishing awkward (and delivered economies of scale). One file can be redistributed over and over again. If someone wants a hard copy, you can print one copy for them! Also, distribution is taken care of.

Getting to the point of sale is still a struggle. Indeed, any old fool can get something on Amazon or Lulu, but if anyone other than family and friends buy it, it'll be a miracle. The POS operators won't care, because it's just not worth their while putting it in the shop window. A publisher, however, will get your work at the front of the display (albeit an on-line display).

Finally, there's marketing. Without good marketing, you might as well give up.

In a nutshell, self-publishing is fine for those seeking little more than the gratification of seeing something they've produced. There will be a few very rare exceptions, but that's all. Publishers will still lead the field: they can get your work (no matter what format) to the front of the queue, and get readers wanting it.

E-books will be very cheap, but the profit will stay the same because of the overheads being removed. Aside from that, electronic media will change very little.

No, wait. It will change one thing; they'll be more below-par work out there that doesn't get read! If anything, the increase in "noise" will drive discerning readers back to the respected publishers.

Professionally published work will remain as the rule.

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

But readers of fiction want something more. Stories – with the exception of fantasy and science fiction, which could well go online - are souvenirs of the way we felt, and people will go on wanting them in paper book form. They want to be not interrupted by online media distractions such as hyperlinks. They want peaceful reading, in beds and bathtubs and airport lounges and on the beaches, and in the fields, and in the hills, and in the streets....