Thread: The Road, by Cormac McCarthy

Originally Posted by Lester Burnham

I thought the book was substandard. I didn't mind the writing style so much as the predictability, the oversimplified relationship between the father and son, and the disappointingly anticlimactic ending.

Literature is generally about theme, not characterization or... interesting devices. The Road, on that point, succeeds immensely, which is why it has been well received.

I really don't see the point of learning (as an example) algebra II when I'll never have to use it in my day-to-day life.

You will. Graph theory is extremely important for finance and basically anything involving statistics or constantly changing values... which is everything.

As for literature... there's quite a bit more to analysis and interpretation than I think you suspect. I doubt a reader without at least a little college instruction will be able to find important patterns in Hazlitt's essays, or De Quincey's.

Actually...

Thomas De Quincey - On the Knocking at the Gate

What is the importance of structure and organization in this essay?

There is a very careful and deliberate use of organization in it. It's really the only thing in the essay that makes the point. And there's a pretty important point about life, which you should think about in relation to your maths.

To put in my own words:

When faced with life's questions, wait for life's answers.

Just to clarify, I never actually suggested that anyone else doesn't have a right to read whatever he/she chooses, and have his own opinion on the matter. In fact, what the intention of my original post was, which seemed to offend and aggravate so much, was only to say that one should look within oneself (with more self-criticism) as to why something that's so acclaimed seems such 'garbage'. It remains my opinion that having a knowledge about how to interpret and read books (properly) is a very significant skill to acquire, whether from your mom or a professor. I allow for the fact that others have a different opinion - I think they're missing out on a lot!

Originally Posted by Shawn

Literature is generally about theme, not characterization or... interesting devices. The Road, on that point, succeeds immensely, which is why it has been well received.

We obviously aproach this subject from different poles; but I'm listening.

In the context of the above statement: what is the theme of The Road?

Originally Posted by qwertyman

In the context of the above statement: what is the theme of The Road?

Which one? The persistence of the human spirit. Consequences. Altruism. Filial responsibility. The journey. Coming of age. Change. Acceptance. Truth.

The first of which is the theme that I refer to in my post.

Ok, so what is the message?

Originally Posted by qwertyman

Ok, so what is the message?

That's interpretation; and I really don't feel like providing excerpts to support any argument I would make on that.

So my answer is: read the book and decide for yourself.

That's difficult because I don't think there is a message.

Why does there have to be?
What makes you think there is one?
Why can't it just be a story?

I think it's a story.

Originally Posted by qwertyman

Why does there have to be?
What makes you think there is one?

Because the really good authors are the ones that have something to say; and, regardless of intent, every story has a message.

The mistake people make with literary analysis is that they assume that the practice is decoding the author's intended composition. That's not the case. Literary analysis is about finding what is in a piece of text, extracting meaning, finding patterns, and making connections with other works.

That's why I think there is meaning in The Road; because there has to be... no story can come to denouement without saying something.

Originally Posted by Shawn

Because the really good authors are the ones that have something to say; and, regardless of intent, every story has a message.

No it doesn't. I asked you what you thought the theme was because I wanted to be sure that you were making a distinction between theme and 'message'. But as you won't tell me what your interpretation of the message is, just that there is one, and it may not be the same as somebody else's... I can't see that being resolved.

The mistake people make with literary analysis is that they assume that the practice is decoding the author's intended composition. That's not the case. Literary analysis is about finding what is in a piece of text, extracting meaning, finding patterns, and making connections with other works.

I must be thick because, apart from the last phrase, I don't understand the difference.

That's why I think there is meaning in The Road; because there has to be... no story can come to denouement without saying something

So what did it say? Don't describe the story. Don't say, 'the persistence of the human spirit', that's the theme. What did it say?

Originally Posted by qwertyman

What did it say?

It said that human pursuits are worthwhile, even in the direst of circumstances. But that's what it said to me.

Asking a question like "what's the message of the story?" is ridiculous because there are such an infinite number of reactions to a bit of text that... it's just ridiculous.

I must be thick because, apart from the last phrase, I don't understand the difference.

They're different because the message isn't always intentional; because the author doesn't always know what they're writing. That's why, as I've stated before, that regardless of intent, there is a message in a story. It is up to the individual to find it for themselves.

Understanding that there is a bit of depth to the ordinary doesn't diminish the enjoyment of the surface currents. It might actually bring about enlightenment and enrich an experience.

Originally Posted by Shawn

It said that human pursuits are worthwhile, even in the direst of circumstances. But that's what it said to me.

THAT'S A MESSAGE!

Asking a question like "what's the message of the story?" is ridiculous because there are such an infinite number of reactions to a bit of text that... it's just ridiculous.

I would be very disappointed if there were an infinite number of reactions to a piece of text I wrote. I would think I had failed.

Ridiculous? Come on Shawn, you said there is a message and I asked what is it because I can't see one.
'Human pursuits are worthwhile', that's not a message that's the status quo. People eat when they are hungry...they sleep when they're tired...

Understanding that there is a bit of depth to the ordinary doesn't diminish the enjoyment of the surface currents. It might actually bring about enlightenment and enrich an experience

I think this is where the basic difference in our aproach lies, you interlectualise and analyse and I read.

I don't suppose we will convince each other. Themes are fine, but messages, I find them patronising, even more so when words like 'enlightenment' are associated with them.

Originally Posted by Shawn

Literature is generally about theme, not characterization or... interesting devices. The Road, on that point, succeeds immensely, which is why it has been well received.

I wasn't offering a literary critique. It was just a comment on what I thought of the book. I'll leave the theme analysis to the academics. I generally read for pleasure and escape.

Treasure Island received great literary acclaim. I had to force myself to finish it.

wrong thread

Originally Posted by qwertyman

I don't suppose we will convince each other. Themes are fine, but messages, I find them patronising, even more so when words like 'enlightenment' are associated with them.

I can understand that. Just my opinion... I mean, I've often found books to help me rationalize and make good decisions, but, as you said, I analyze instead of entertain myself.

I don't think we actually have to disagree. Because, even though I think I can find messages in the "mainstream" novels and such, it may very well be that I am wrong; and that the only (intentional or unintentional) messages reside in literature.

In any case, I would urge anybody looking to entertain themselves to not look to literature for it. It's much more useful when one is seeking to be informed.

Originally Posted by Lester Burnham

I wasn't offering a literary critique. It was just a comment on what I thought of the book.

The problem is that The Road is literature that's found its way into a best-seller's list.

*shrug* I read it because it was recommended by my future English professor.